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  • “Steampunk Practices: Time, Tactility, and a Racial Politics of Touch” (103 comments)

    • Comment by koriordan on April 25th, 2014

      Change to Sundén 

      Comment by Alexandra Juhasz on April 28th, 2014

      ok.

      Comment by Alexandra Juhasz on April 28th, 2014

       Steampunks gather (Typo)

      Comment by Alexandra Juhasz on April 28th, 2014

      Yes! But there’s a cheery, pretty downside:See “Better Homes and Hipsters”: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/27/fashion/kinfolk-magazine-the-martha-stewart-living-of-the-portland-set.html?ref=fashion&_r=0  and of course, lampooned in Portlandia

      Comment by Alexandra Juhasz on April 28th, 2014

      I find your opening sentence needlessly circuitous, especially given the strong claims you make in later paragraphs. 

      Comment by Alexandra Juhasz on April 28th, 2014

      For example, the first sentence of para 6!

      Comment by Alexandra Juhasz on April 28th, 2014

      really excited about what you say you’re going to do!

      Comment by Alexandra Juhasz on April 28th, 2014

      highlighting should be highlight (typo)

      Comment by Alexandra Juhasz on April 28th, 2014

      in turn (typo); move “steampunk authors” tp before the parenthensis (typo);

      Comment by Alexandra Juhasz on April 28th, 2014

       “steampunks have a way of modifying and punking digital technologies with steam.” I assume this is metaphorical, but what do you mean then as this is tautolgocail

      Comment by Alexandra Juhasz on April 28th, 2014

       filednotes=fieldnote (typos)

      Comment by Alexandra Juhasz on April 28th, 2014

      as (many?) exciting political potentials

      Comment by Alexandra Juhasz on April 28th, 2014

      I like these questions, but wonder how the man you discuss above effects this move. that is to say, is he feeling such a criticism? or is he not and you are and you are all moving in the same community?

      Comment by Alexandra Juhasz on April 28th, 2014

       A Thousand Plateaus needs ital (typo)

      Comment by Alexandra Juhasz on April 28th, 2014

      signification,of (typo)

      Comment by Alexandra Juhasz on April 28th, 2014

      Scenes of Subjection in itals (typo)

      Comment by Alexandra Juhasz on April 28th, 2014

      or feel(s) it quite differently (typo); how do you dress when you are at Cons? Are you known (through costume or otherwise as queer or is this an interior feeling? knowing/)

      Comment by Alexandra Juhasz on April 28th, 2014

      forgetting anew (typo); I like thinking about funk as tempo, but how do you think about it haptically as well?

      Comment by Alexandra Juhasz on April 28th, 2014

      I like this idea of violent touch but am not sure you’ve really given us examples nor close consideration above

      Comment by Alexandra Juhasz on April 28th, 2014

      I think all the ideas here are exciting, but would love a little ethnographic detail: have any of your subjects (including yourself) talked about touching and being touched in these ways, are their images that speak this you can refer to? 

      Comment by Alexandra Juhasz on April 28th, 2014

      As I said in my previous comment, I really like the theoretical/political space you are pressing here, and believe the piece would be even stronger if you could link these ruminations to embodied/represented practices of your own or your subjects. The few quotes you have selected were terrific, but what about how these people (you?) look, what do they wear, could you give us some haptic detail (or perhaps add some images)?

      Comment by o.jenzen@brighton.ac.uk on April 29th, 2014

      presumably this is from a research diary or interview material. Some sort of reference to data collection, i.e. (Interview with… date) appropriate.  

      Comment by o.jenzen@brighton.ac.uk on April 29th, 2014

      I suggest taking out: Steampunk has been defined in a multitude of ways, some of which point at the impossible mission of defining that which defies definition, something that is hybrid to the bone (Bowser and Croxall, 2010).start with the origin of the term as situated in  the attempt to classify a new category of fiction.  

      Comment by o.jenzen@brighton.ac.uk on April 29th, 2014

      para 5 line 1: ‘takes shape around’ – be more direct. ‘deals with’?    

      Comment by o.jenzen@brighton.ac.uk on April 29th, 2014

      typo: Laura Marks’s  

      Comment by o.jenzen@brighton.ac.uk on April 29th, 2014

      fieldwork – specify where and when.  

      Comment by o.jenzen@brighton.ac.uk on April 29th, 2014

      The following sentence is unclear: Central to the importance of the affective value of 19th century materiality, and the insistence on how steampunk garments and technologies need to have the right ‘feel’, is the sense of touch.   it jumps from one context to another in a way that I can’t really follow. The second part of the sentence relates more directly to the topic here so it is the first part that needs clarifying – is this an attempt to an analogy? 

      Comment by o.jenzen@brighton.ac.uk on April 29th, 2014

      think sensation – think of sensation ?  

      Comment by o.jenzen@brighton.ac.uk on April 29th, 2014

      par 50 line 1: formatting of book title?  

      Comment by o.jenzen@brighton.ac.uk on April 29th, 2014

       Are not references to Victorian / Neo-Victorian culturally incongruent if the fieldwork context is Swedish? If the subculture internationally operates within a British cultural framework of cultural and historical reference points perhaps this needs explaining as it is hard to see how it would translate straightforwardly.  

      Comment by o.jenzen@brighton.ac.uk on April 29th, 2014

      Re: ‘sometimes forms the basis of alternative politics in relation to the current technological condition’  – exemplify when this happens or perhaps you want to indicate the potential for this to happen? 

      Comment by o.jenzen@brighton.ac.uk on April 29th, 2014

      Re: ‘sometimes forms the basis of alternative politics in relation to the current technological condition’  – exemplify when this happens or perhaps you want to indicate the potential for this to happen?  

      Comment by o.jenzen@brighton.ac.uk on April 29th, 2014

      these ways display   – enact? perform?  

      Comment by joanharan on May 7th, 2014

      You say ‘swag’ and ‘swagging’. I think you mean swagger, and swaggering.

      Comment by Alexis Lothian on May 8th, 2014

       I agree; cut or simplify this first sentence.Also note verb/subject disagreement in last sentence here (“steampunks gathers”).

      Comment by Alexis Lothian on May 8th, 2014

      I’m convinced by the description of the turn to the past, but not that this is necessarily a turn away from the future; I think it’s important that none of the formations you cite seek to reproduce the past as it was, but rather to transformatively recreate. This is more an engagement with your argument than a suggestion for edits, though!I would like to see links or citations to examples of both 80s/90s cyberpunk and the “neo-burlesque, the re-vamped 1950s housewife and her cupcakery” and “the femme movement and its queer, vintage femininities,” perhaps in the form of a footnote.

      Comment by Alexis Lothian on May 8th, 2014

      It strikes me that this issue might be usefully related to the last part of this paragraph, through a a connection of the imperialist content of steampunk’s neo-Victorianism and the Anglo-American dominance of transnational digital subcultures.

      Comment by Alexis Lothian on May 8th, 2014

      I am liking the feel of this argument very much! It seems connected to recent work by Anne Cvetkovich and Lauren Berlant, too.

      Comment by Alexis Lothian on May 8th, 2014

       typo “imaged-based” for “image-based”

      Comment by Alexis Lothian on May 9th, 2014

      “In steampunk, anachrony functions as the baseline, through flashbacks as a manner of flashing-forward, a moving backwards through time, analepsis, as a way of entering prolepsis, of moving backwards into the future.”I love the idea of “moving backwards into the future.” I found that the multiple commas in this sentence made it a little difficult to understand, though.

      Comment by Alexis Lothian on May 9th, 2014

      Are first- and second-generation steampunk historical or content-based divisions? Earlier, you referred to “cyberpunk” as happening in the 1990s;  now it seems that the second generation of steampunk is happening then?

      Comment by Alexis Lothian on May 9th, 2014

       Love this paragraph.

      Comment by Alexis Lothian on May 9th, 2014

      Opening sentence “Even if” should, I think, be “Even as.” Perhaps a nod to the work some are doing on postcolonial steampunk would be worth including along with the generic “gender, sexuality and race” here? I am thinking of Jaymee Goh’s work.

      Comment by Alexis Lothian on May 9th, 2014

      This seems a very different take on the meaning of steampunk’s seemingly rigid gender roles than the participant cited above – one that doesn’t assume the bodies performing masculinity will be male, or vice versa. Worth mentioning at this stage?

      Comment by Alexis Lothian on May 9th, 2014

      I’m enjoying this argument, and wondering how it’s inflected by the emphasis in steampunk’s handmade artefacts on the imagery and imaginary of the machine, though machinery at a human rather than industrially immense or digitally miniaturized scale…

      Comment by Alexis Lothian on May 9th, 2014

       Last sentence: missing o in first “erotihistoriography” and parallel structure error: ” not so much a moving backwards through time in an attempt to leave the present behind, but rather [a means of] of embodying an encounter between different and overlapping temporalities, something that is at the very core of steampunk costuming practices.”

      Comment by Alexis Lothian on May 9th, 2014

      Thinking of the Industrial Revolution as “pretty great” involves erasing the experience not only of enslaved and colonized others but also of white working-class populations…

      Comment by Alexis Lothian on May 9th, 2014

      I also would like to know how you have navigated the choice about what costume to personally embody – and how your presence as researcher impacts the ways you might otherwise engage as a queer and feminist participant (for example, if there are queer/feminist/antiracist members who are critiquing and challenging the norms of the con, do you join in and become known as one of them?)

      Comment by Alexis Lothian on May 9th, 2014

      Typo in second sentence: incorporate for incorporates.Typo in name of Ay-leen the Peacemaker.  

      Comment by Alexis Lothian on May 9th, 2014

      I enjoyed this article very much for its theoretical richness and lyricism as well as for its insights into steampunk and feminist ambivalence. I agree with Alex Juhasz when it comes to the ethnographic detail, though; I wanted to touch and feel more details, to be able to fully visualize, the subject matter. Images would also be a great addition.

      Comment by o.jenzen@brighton.ac.uk on May 19th, 2014

      Hi Jenny,I really enjoyed your article. Apologies that the review feedback has come in stages, but hope it will all be coherent as you access it at the end of the process.  

      Comment by o.jenzen@brighton.ac.uk on May 19th, 2014

      The ‘witnessing’ part of her argument may need a bit contextualising.    

      Comment by o.jenzen@brighton.ac.uk on May 19th, 2014

      This paragraph contains some central ideas. The contrast to the museum experience is helpful. Could the proposed strategies for using tactility as a feminist method /praxis be outlined in a more articulated way? And perhaps signposted already in the introduction ?  

      Comment by o.jenzen@brighton.ac.uk on May 19th, 2014

      1. Can the reference to the interview be clarified? Who is doing the interview ? You or Onion?2. Why is the name in square brackets? 3. talked should be present tense; talks. 

      Comment by o.jenzen@brighton.ac.uk on May 19th, 2014

      Could the feminist potential be highlighted here?  

      Comment by o.jenzen@brighton.ac.uk on May 19th, 2014

      typo correction: Laura Marks’s (2000: xiii) terminology 

      Comment by o.jenzen@brighton.ac.uk on May 19th, 2014

      The importance of the digital provision for steampunk culture may be something you want to highlight as a paradox earlier on?   

      Comment by o.jenzen@brighton.ac.uk on May 19th, 2014

      Reference needed for Marks’s quotation.The haptic nature of the images could perhaps be further detailed/ theorised? Is it the case that the steampunk images referred to here are all documenting actual artefacts?An annotated example may be very useful here.  

      Comment by o.jenzen@brighton.ac.uk on May 19th, 2014

       This section either requires further discussion and explaining regarding how it offers a counter history, or you may want to take it out: ‘Freeman shows how erotohistoriography is a method with a history of its own – referencing the late 18th century discussion of historical method through the male capacity for sensibility – which figures as a repressed constituent of historical scholarship itself.’  

      Comment by o.jenzen@brighton.ac.uk on May 19th, 2014

       Great section. Is this where the feminist / queer potential can be located? If so, it would be good to state this.  

      Comment by o.jenzen@brighton.ac.uk on May 19th, 2014

      1. Why KrKristin in brackets?2. Not sure your argument can be contrasted to Love’s. Her writing isn’t exemplifying restorative history writing, rather it is critiquing how the historical is used in the contemporary to serve a progressionist agenda.    

      Comment by o.jenzen@brighton.ac.uk on May 19th, 2014

      typo: Waters’s  – also add year of publication 

      Comment by o.jenzen@brighton.ac.uk on May 19th, 2014

      the idea of touching that which the other has touched is very interesting. Could it be explored a bit further? Isa this the historical other? Racial other?  The  quotation “I feel like a traitor every time I put on a corset, or wear lace gloves.” may have ended up here by mistake? If not it needs contextualising.  

      Comment by o.jenzen@brighton.ac.uk on May 19th, 2014

      I find the opening of the paragraph a bit confusing. Do you mean the enlisting of 50s vintage fashion and paraphernalia in the performance of femme femininity?I suppose an implication of Dahl’s observations is that these practices put racism / sexism firmly in the past – are they thus also possible to eroticize? Is this also the case in steampunk?In other words, what is the notion of ‘now’ that the engagement with ‘historical’ expressions, dress and etiquette in steampunk produces?        

      Comment by o.jenzen@brighton.ac.uk on May 19th, 2014

      relatedly to the above point the last sentence in this paragraph about a side-stepping of politics could be further articulated.   

      Comment by o.jenzen@brighton.ac.uk on May 19th, 2014

      Is the following based on observations in field work?Within steampunk cultures, it seems possible for most participants to stay with sensation, to not ask questions of what it means to touch and be touched in certain ways, and how the sensation itself might shift, depending on the specificity of bodies, fabrics, and histories. If so it’s a good opportunity to add a bit more of the empirical material here.Fisher’s point seems to indicate a wider debate of politics of epistemologies – this may be another point of connection to your aim of offering a feminist critique   of the steampunk practices? 

      Comment by o.jenzen@brighton.ac.uk on May 19th, 2014

      Re: coercive deployments of touch in steampunk are symbolically linked to slavery, pain, and torture   – how are these played out? 

      Comment by o.jenzen@brighton.ac.uk on May 19th, 2014

      1. are these actual quotations from interviews? that could be made more clear. Otherwise it appears as an oversimplification of the views of the group participating i your research.2. The last sentence needs clarifying.   

      Comment by o.jenzen@brighton.ac.uk on May 19th, 2014

      isn’t the historical drag part of the enjoyment for all?That would include the enjoyment / exploring of the gaps and fissures in the performance that are at the heart of the drag act, no? 2. the point about what triggers a feminist impulse could be further clarified.  

      Comment by o.jenzen@brighton.ac.uk on May 19th, 2014

      Steamfunk is about changing the pace of steampunk, making room for and creating black bodies as not merely a rhythmic supplement, but as being part of the baseline in fundamental ways.-what does that mean?  

      Comment by o.jenzen@brighton.ac.uk on May 19th, 2014

      nice point about the space between aesthetics and politics.  

      Comment by o.jenzen@brighton.ac.uk on May 19th, 2014

      My overall feedback is:1. It would be great if you could utilise the empirical material a bit more and in doing so also situate the study a bit more in terms of time and place. 2. The production and/or resistance of feminist knowledge can be reiterated further. 3. Does steampunk  engage with the otherness of history in itself? You imply this potential – can it be further articulated? 

      Comment by joanharan on May 19th, 2014

      I think it is risky to overstate the turn to the past in contemporary popular culture, so perhaps you could nuance this claim a little. There are multiple turns to fantastic alternate presents.

      Comment by joanharan on May 19th, 2014

      I got a bit lost in the sentence beginning “It is a project that follows…” I think the sentence would be clearer split into two parts, as I am not sure what things are being shuttled between.

      Comment by joanharan on May 19th, 2014

      I also found the multiple commas obscured the meaning. I also had trouble with mixing the metaphor of the baseline with the concepts of flashback and flashforward. I got very confused about the spatiotemporality of your argument. Could you restructure this section to clarify your meaning? I suspect, like Alexis, I would be very sympathetic to your argument, but I am not confident that I have grasped it.

      Comment by joanharan on May 19th, 2014

      Stupid system ate my comment. I had issues with the same sentence that Alexis highlIghted. Apart from the repeated use of commas instead of conjunctions, the use of the metaphor of the baseline entangled with discussions of flashforwards and flashbacks left me spatiotemporally confused. I suspect, like Alexis, I would be sympathetic to your argument, but I am just not sure that I have grasped it. It might be helpful if you specified explicitly what you mean by flashbacks and flashforwards which resonate cinematically for me.

      Comment by joanharan on May 19th, 2014

      Do you think that the sentence you quote is genuinely intended to be a guide to conduct, or is it satirical?

      N.B. There is a missing word or words in the sentence beginning ‘Gwendolyn Audrey…’. Is she referring to Victorian manners or neoVictorian manners? Without the context of her quotation it is not clear to when / where she is referring.

      Comment by joanharan on May 19th, 2014

      I wonder whether an informant who says ‘sexual preference, if that is the term’ is the best person to opine on queer contingency. Did you not observe any more queering practices?

      Comment by joanharan on May 19th, 2014

      This sentence makes me uncomfortable: “It becomes particularly disturbing … darker sides of Victoriana”, in conjunction with the previous sentence. I don’t feel as if you have given a thick enough description of this behaviour in your fieldwork to claim such disturbance. As a contrary reader, without these descriptions, I keep imagining ways that time play could be emphasising racism, sexism and homophobia to open them up to critical readings rather than simply sidestepping the issues. I think you need to show that the side-stepping is happening and not leave your reader concerned that this is just your assumption.

      Comment by joanharan on May 19th, 2014

      I find this quotation also risks oversimplification, albeit in a different way, through the use of the word but. Why not an and in the middle of their sentence? Are politics and pleasure (why aesthetics and not desire?) necessarily opposed?

      Comment by joanharan on May 19th, 2014

      This seems very promising. I think O.Jenzen makes an interesting suggestion. It does feel as if this paragraph comes quite late on. Perhaps you could hold back on your feminist ambivalence until you have explored the possibilities hinted at in this paragraph more fully.

      Comment by joanharan on May 19th, 2014

      Inverted commas missing at end of quote. No reference to where quote comes from.

      Comment by joanharan on May 19th, 2014

      There are also suggestions of alternative historiographies / temporalities which put into question the possibility of assuming a single orientation to ‘the past’ as well as of gender play that undercut some of what has been said previously.

      Comment by joanharan on May 19th, 2014

      But is it not important to take account of the role of steampunk novels in precipitating this culture. Is the culture all about touching / looking, or are there political-economical critical aspects to it as well?

      Comment by joanharan on May 19th, 2014

      I don’t know if this is just my issue, but it seems to me that there is some lack of clarity in the distinction between the visual and the image, that may be an artefact of taking theory that has been developed to insist on the
      Haptic quality of the mediated and reapplying it to practices that seem self-evidently haptic as well as the associated digital realm. Do you think that there is some unpacking that you could usefully do here, and some structuring of the argument that would take your readers through what Marks’ work enables you to do / think regarding all that makes up s
      steampunk cultures?

      Comment by joanharan on May 19th, 2014

      I wrote a lengthy comment on para 27 which has disappeared. Sending this as a test.

      Comment by joanharan on May 19th, 2014

      So: truncated version of what I wrote that disappeared into ether: I am concerned that there may be a lack of clarity about the distinction between the visual and the image … This may be an artefact of working with theory that has been developed to insist on the haptic qualIty of the mediated and reapplying it to what seems self-evidently haptic /tactile as well as the associated digital realm. Could you do some Unpacking here and restructure your argument slightly to take your reader through these moves in order to demonstrate what Marks’ work enables you to
      think /do about all that is steampunk culture

      Comment by joanharan on May 19th, 2014

      Personally, it seems to me that the Freeman approach is potentially much more fruitful for your project. Especially the reference to hybridity – I don’t know if Freeman is referencing Latour on hybrids, but it certainly seems as if she might.

      Comment by joanharan on May 19th, 2014

      I really like this. It seems to me to capture much more clearly and plausibly what seems to be going on with steampunk than the section on analepsis etc.

      Comment by joanharan on May 19th, 2014

      This is much too far away from Kristin’s quote for you to pursue this argument. You need to structure the article so that they are adjacent paragraphs.

      Comment by joanharan on May 19th, 2014

      But don’t any of the costumes mess with ‘the history of white etc etc’? Has your ethnography not furnished you with any alternative answers to the question Whose late 19th century is available for steampunky time play? And how would you know? Because surely you can’t tell by just looking if you take your haptic methodology seriously? So what are the challenges to fully addressing your research questions?

      Comment by joanharan on May 19th, 2014

      ‘McClintock puts forth’ is an odd construction. Do you mean argues? Suggests? Claims?

      Comment by joanharan on May 19th, 2014

      I am still stuck on the apparent insistence that all steampunky players perform white bourgeois or upper class femininity or masculinity? Is the culture so homogeneous?

      Can McClintock’s arguments really be easily extended? Would this not elide important specificities?

      Comment by joanharan on May 19th, 2014

      I am concerned about your even ifs. Why would you want to hold steampunk to a higher standard than dominant culture?

      Why do you assume that ‘a love for sustainable garments’ sidesteps the political dimensions of embodying history. I don’t mean to be hostile – I just think that some more openness to the possibility that steampunkers could recognise some of the risky corollaries of their affective investments might be advisable.

      Comment by joanharan on May 19th, 2014

      This paragraph. Is really interesting, because it seems to me that the theoretical intro is really quite irrelevant to what follows about your researcher subjectivity. I think this whole article is a fascinating and fraught engagement with a subculture that you seem to want to care for, but keep feeling repelled by. This seems to me to be a much more visceral response than ambivalence.

      Comment by joanharan on May 19th, 2014

      Do you mean baseline or do you mean bass line, or are you making a homophonic pun? And how does this bear on the earlier use of baseline in this essay?

      Comment by joanharan on May 19th, 2014

      This paragraph seems to slip between speculative and apparently empirical modes. I think you need to be more rigorous in distinguishing between these modes. It is not evident from this article that you have the empirical evidence to back up your speculations. It is not that they are inherently implausible, but as the article is currently written, you appear to be over reliant on ‘if then’ assumptions. I think you would do better to be much clearer in separating out your conceptual framework, the problematics about race, gender and sexuality you wish to explore, the very real methodological challenges this imposes, and the specific empirical data you have collected. When you are talking about issues of race and imperialism, the distinctions among the three nation-states in which you are observing steampunk cultures will also have significant bearing.

      Comment by joanharan on May 19th, 2014

      Why, “If it …”.

      This culture that you gesture at sounds diverse and vibrant until you collapse it into top hats, corsets and crinolines at the end of the paragraph. Could you offer a thicker description of this vibrant diversity?

      Comment by joanharan on May 19th, 2014

      Having read through the whole article now, I would recommend that this outline of the argument be much more explicit about how much of the article is theoretical and speculative, and the relatively minor role of a substantive account of fieldwork.

      Comment by joanharan on May 19th, 2014

      Typo: imaged-based

      Comment by joanharan on May 19th, 2014

      Oops! Sorry, repeated your typo spotting

      Comment by joanharan on May 19th, 2014

      I think if you introduce something that you wonder about it is important to explore it and not just leave it hanging.

      Comment by joanharan on May 19th, 2014

      I think it would help the argument if you were clearer about the relationship of steampunk literature to the steampunk communities of practice that you discuss.

  • RUIN LIFE TACTICS: On the Gendered Evolution of Doxing (96 comments)

    • Comment by whitneyphillips on February 4th, 2017

      [However, doxing did not originally refer to the act of revealing private information]

      This could use some clarification, as that was the end goal in many early instances of doxing (even if it wasn’t yet called that); participants wanted to prove they COULD access & post someone’s information, as a show of hacking prowess; some context here http://www.nytimes.com/1992/07/23/nyregion/computer-savvy-with-attitude-young-working-class-hackers-accused-high-tech-crime.html?pagewanted=all  ——-maybe clarify the level of publicity you mean?

      Comment by whitneyphillips on February 4th, 2017

      (Comment still holds with the contextualization of the practice in para 7– even info that was shared on semi-private forums could trickle out to other online and offline spaces)

      Comment by whitneyphillips on February 4th, 2017

      [‘dox: personal information about people on the Internet, often including real name, known aliases, address, phone number, SSN, credit card number, etc.’]

      Referring to the 1992 NYT article I linked to, people were doing this then/not just referring to pirated media (regardless of what they might have called it– not sure if you mean the act itself or the word attached to the act); again the historical continuity could be clarified

      Comment by whitneyphillips on February 4th, 2017

      [ Leave a comment on paragraph 10 0 [Some] instances of doxing are about exposing the people behind hateful behavior for who they really are.]

      ViolentAcrez would be a good example here; not sure how that would connect to the last half of this para/could use an example of what you mean

      Comment by whitneyphillips on February 4th, 2017

      I expected some examples here, then realized this was more of a transitional pivot/setup; maybe use some signal phrases so the reader knows you’ll be unpacking these kinds of examples in the paragraphs to follow?

      Comment by whitneyphillips on February 4th, 2017

      [violentacrez]

      Ah ok this speaks both to my last comment and an earlier comment– seeding some of the examples to come, or noting that you’ll get to those examples later, would help signal to the reader what was coming/that you’ll be returning to that conversation

      Comment by whitneyphillips on February 4th, 2017

      [online witch-hunts and dangerous speculation]

      The man was also suffering from severe depression at the time; he had been suicidal prior to this and as I recall the timeline was difficult to establish because his body had been submerged. So it’s not clear if the doxing caused his death, but it certainly devastated his family as he remained missing for many days

      Comment by whitneyphillips on February 4th, 2017

      [Day’s doxing provides significant evidence that she was targeted by an Internet hate mob solely because of misogyny and not journalistic ethics]

      Suggests that “journalistic ethics” was ever an explanation worth taking seriously, which isn’t what I think you’re saying, but could be reframed slightly

      Comment by whitneyphillips on February 4th, 2017

      [privacy on Twitter and his blog.]

      Were any men doxed for their pushback? Well-known or otherwise…

      Comment by whitneyphillips on February 4th, 2017

      [but in hopes of causing deliberate harm to the victim]

      Claiming that this is universally true seems a bit strong; have no men been swatted in the hopes of causing deliberate harm? (I don’t disagree with your basic point of disproportionality, but think the claim could be softened some)

      Comment by whitneyphillips on February 4th, 2017

      [ even when online.]

      I’d love to hear more about this, as it implies there would be a reasonable expectation of escape while engaged in online spaces…

      Comment by whitneyphillips on February 4th, 2017

      Could talk about the shading of difference between anonymous and pseudonymous communication here; much of what you’re describing happens under searchable, persistent pseudonyms– pure anonymous communication often can’t be traced to any stable identity

      Comment by whitneyphillips on February 4th, 2017

      [anonymously]

      Again, there’s a distinction w/ pseudonymity that’s worth mentioning here; I think in this case you mean “without consequence,” which isn’t quite/necessarily the same thing as anonymity

      Comment by whitneyphillips on February 4th, 2017

      [justify its actions as fighting against unethical journalism]

      Maybe seeing a bit more of these arguments would be helpful for the sake of unpacking/allowing for a maximum analytic eyeroll

      Comment by whitneyphillips on February 4th, 2017

      Not sure I follow the point about two types of privacy– I think you’re referring to the underlying desire/need for privacy, but this could be rephrased to clarify (since the notion/function of privacy itself doesn’t change).

      Comment by whitneyphillips on February 4th, 2017

      This para is covering lots of important ground & I think you could slow down a bit and maybe tether some of this to previously-discussed examples, to emphasize your main points

      Comment by whitneyphillips on February 4th, 2017

      Maybe not, but it is predicated on the violation of one’s (digitally mediated) space, and precludes consent…it’s about dominating, which is reflective of how the act was often used, even from its earliest inception, to police boundaries and punish those for stepping out of line; even if framed as “just a joke/prank,” that was still about symbolic violence; see Coleman on the history of hacking culture (specifically the chapter on hacking jokes). So I think that idea could be integrated early on, as it also helps explain why this approach lends itself so seamlessly to gendered violence — it was always poised on that cliff, from the very beginning.

      Comment by whitneyphillips on February 4th, 2017

      As you’ll see, my comments here are mostly paragraph-level– places that I thought could be clarified, additional examples to consider, etc. I did think a few earlier sections could use a bit more signal-phrasing, though that’s more of a personal preference of mine (what can I say, I like sign posts). Overall though I really enjoyed reading this, Aidan, and appreciate your willingness to tackle such a ……….. frankly just gross topic. I hope you’ve been taking care of yourself, talking about this stuff, thinking carefully about all the ways women can be harmed online, is exhausting, so I’m sending my best thoughts. Great work here & please let me know if I need to clarify any of my points! And am happy to jump back in and re-review!

      Comment by zdai@bgsu.edu on February 10th, 2017

      The author provides an brief introduction of doxing here with zero academic resources and citations. I do expect to read any relative scholar works about doxing. Importantly, for the readers who are not familiar with doxing, we are wondering what is the connection between doxing and Internet privacy. There is a gap between these two important concepts.

      Comment by zdai@bgsu.edu on February 10th, 2017

      This sentence is long and very confusing for the readers.

      Comment by zdai@bgsu.edu on February 10th, 2017

      [Know Your Meme,]

      Moreover, readers are expecting to know the reasons that the author picked up this online community. The rational for this are expecting to be explained clearly.

      Comment by zdai@bgsu.edu on February 10th, 2017

      [n early 2000s mainstream culture, ‘dox’ still only referred to general ‘documents,’ and, outside of specific hacker communities, had not evolved into a common practice—retaliatory or otherwise. Though a thoroughly informal and often unmoderated reference source, Urban Dictionary is a useful metric for gauging common definitions of Internet slang. In an entry posted by UD user jan banan, dated October 6, 2003, ‘dox’ is defined as ‘short for documents… common in the warez-scene, meaning patches, updates, cracks, etc.’ (Dox 2003)]

      Would the definition from Urban Dictionary represent on behalf  of the 2000s mainstream culture?

      Comment by zdai@bgsu.edu on February 10th, 2017

      [However, recent trends have made it clear that online harassment in general is disproportionately aggressive towards female-identified Internet users. ]

      What does the author mean by recent trends? Who are the persons define these trends? A specific elaboration may be helpful for the readers.

      Comment by zdai@bgsu.edu on February 10th, 2017

      [According to survey data collected from 2000-20113 b]

      Does the author mean 2000-2013?

      Comment by zdai@bgsu.edu on February 10th, 2017

      [According to survey data collected from 2000-20113 by the organization Working to Halt Online Abuse, an average of 70 percent of online harassment victims identify as female (n.d.). Doxing in particular has grown to punish female-identified individuals in specifically gendered ways.]

      The survey indicates 70% of online harassment victims as female, and then the author concludes doxing has grown to punish femle-identified individuals. The logic and rational behind these are not solid. Readers are expecting to have a clarification.

      Comment by zdai@bgsu.edu on February 10th, 2017

      [To be racist in the United States is, on many levels, still a perfectly safe thing to be. To be a woman criticizing the misogynist content of games, however, isn’t…there are times when doxing is in fact justified for the greater social good. -S.E. Smith (2014)]

      Not sure what are the reasons that author cite Smith(2014)’s statement here? Does it serve as a transition? What are the connections between this statement and motivations for doxing?

      Comment by zdai@bgsu.edu on February 10th, 2017

      [Conversely, it is the latter that is both the most dangerous and the variety that disproportionately affects women. Several factors have coalesced to transform doxing from an intercommunity prank to an accountability strategy and then into an increasingly gendered terror tactic employed to punish and dehumanize women on the Internet.]

      It seems that author intends to explain doxing is dangerous for female victims. Then, the author states “several factors….gendered terror tactic employed to punish and dehumanize women on the internet”. Do the author mean female victims and women on the internet are the same group of women? What are several factors, which supposed to be explained in this paragraph?

      Comment by zdai@bgsu.edu on February 10th, 2017

      [After the 2013 Boston Marathon bombings, Internet vigilantes took to Reddit to identify the bomber]

      Any resources could back up this statement/facts?

      Comment by zdai@bgsu.edu on February 10th, 2017

      [ type of dox]

      Does the author mean types of doxing?

      Comment by zdai@bgsu.edu on February 10th, 2017

      [When called by another name, doxing arguably becomes a journalistic endeavor instead of vigilante justice. ]

      Can the author clarify what does this sentence mean?

      Comment by zdai@bgsu.edu on February 10th, 2017

      [Other prominent feminist and anti-GamerGate women have been subjected to the same treatment as Quinn just for speaking out against the movement, expressing feminist or anti-harassment sentiments, or criticizing the lack of diversity in the game industry. Anita Sarkeesian, creator of the feminist video game criticism YouTube series ‘Tropes Vs. Women,’ was doxed on Twitter after receiving page after page of vulgar and violent rape and murder threats. ]

      Any resources or citation for this?

      Comment by zdai@bgsu.edu on February 10th, 2017

      [Naturally, she wasShe was subsequently doxed in the comment section within an hour of posting the piece.]

      Could the author rewrite this sentence? There are some typos.

      Comment by zdai@bgsu.edu on February 10th, 2017

      [ these privileged users]

      What does the author mean by privileged users?

      Comment by zdai@bgsu.edu on February 10th, 2017

      [An added consequence of the anonymous or pseudonymous nature of many GamerGate supporters is that it is impossible to accurately judge the number of like-minded individuals]

      Could the author talk about difference between anonymous and pseudonymous communication? In the previous paragraphs, the author mentions anonymous communication. However, in here, the author jumps to discuss anonymous and pseudonymous communication at the same time. It is difficult for readers to follow. 

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 12th, 2017

      I’d like to see a more scholarly citation for doxing and more of a sense of the literature in the field. I’m not opposed to also using Know Your Meme and the Urban Dictionary, I’m just uncomfortable with those being the only sources cited.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 12th, 2017

      Not sure of the status of the Smith quotation — should it be integrated into the preceding paragraph or does it introduce the next subsection.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 12th, 2017

      Another way around the problems reviewers noted above might be to focus on high profile cases, most of which seem to involve people who identify as women. But the larger point is that you need research to support the claims you are making. It might also be worth noting that African Americans are targeted online with alarming frequency — maybe talk about why you’re focusing specifically on women in the introduction to this contribution?

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 12th, 2017

      I’m not sure how the bifurcated way doxing developed explains why it is specifically dangerous for women — am willing to be convinced, but I need to better understand your logic.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 12th, 2017

      This paragraph begins in one place (highly publicized instances of doxing) and then ends in another (an evaluation of the utility of doxing). I’d save your conclusions for the conclusion and focus on your analysis.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 12th, 2017

      Do the intentions matter that much if the impact is the same (e.g. people misidentified and harassed)?

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 12th, 2017

      Might be worth considering the similarities between accountability doxing and practices of outing LGBT public figures during the early years of the AIDS pandemic (controversy of course continues today).

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 12th, 2017

      Also, not sure about the status of the quotation (see my comments about the previous instance of this).

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 12th, 2017

      I really like this paper as well, Aidan. It’s sharp and timely and my comments, like Whitney’s above, are aimed at improving it. I wonder if it might make sense to re-organize your material, using a series of high profile case studies to explore the gendered dimensions of doxing? That would mean setting up your definition and framework and then using #GamerGate and other examples to more directly explore the gendered evolution of doxing. I think all the makings of a great contribution are here, but you need to let your analysis flow from your research.

      Comment by krystingollihue on February 14th, 2017

      I wonder if this term could stand some unpacking, especially given the article’s overall emphasis on doxxing’s relationship to mysogyny. In what ways might the “hacker type” (type, here, almost read to me as the typological hacker, not just the kind of person that hacks) serve as a prototype or a foundation for more current, more radical forms of doxxing/mysogyny? For me, if you’re looking at a historical tracing of doxxing, it would be important to also look at a historical tracing of doxxers. You verge on that by mentioning that these communities often dealt in illegal activities related to privacy, but who were they? What are the connections to the people who dox women in our contemporary moment?

      Comment by krystingollihue on February 14th, 2017

      [Doxing in particular has grown to punish female-identified individuals in specifically gendered ways.]

      This seems to be a transitional phrase to move into the next paragraph, rather than a sentence meant to clarify or extend the WHOA data. I would maybe move this to the next sentence, and add a clarifying statement about why this data is relevant to the work of examining doxxing. It seems that many readers (including myself) might be confused by the splitting of this more focused topic between the two paragraphs.

      Comment by krystingollihue on February 14th, 2017

      [Misogyny takes over]

      How? This seems like a pretty big leap that may need to be explained more deliberately. In all, I would love to see a more direct connection made between misogyny & the right to privacy. Misogyny just doesn’t “take over” – it is built into the notion of privacy/publicness.

      Comment by shirachess on February 16th, 2017

      Can this paragraph add better in the overall flow? There is no clear topic sentence leading from the previous paragraph. While it is a good example, it needs to be better framed within the context of the larger work.

      Comment by shirachess on February 16th, 2017

      Similarly, this paragraph feels largely anecdotal without the larger context. While examples are important they need clearer framing within the larger argument.

      Comment by shirachess on February 16th, 2017

      Can this paragraph have a clearer topic sentence that relates it back to the larger argument? Obviously, it does relate but I would like to see a clearer transition to understand why this particular anecdote sheds light on the larger argument.

      Comment by shirachess on February 16th, 2017

      I don’t know if “noble” works for me here. It’s pretty subjective; I’m sure that people we disagree with think their intentions are “noble” even when we do not.

      Comment by shirachess on February 16th, 2017

      Can transitional elements better signpost why we are moving on to GamerGate at this point? (not that we shouldn’t but there needs to be better signposting)

      Comment by shirachess on February 16th, 2017

      Can you contextualize Citron’s quote into your larger argument?

      Comment by shirachess on February 16th, 2017

      Adding to this, before getting into the history of doxing I would love to have a clearer sense of the larger argument. This omission made this read more like a magazine article than an academic argument. Can the thesis/argument be better clarified at the front of the essay that explains how it is engaging and pushing existing literature on the topic(s)?

      Comment by Carina Assunção on February 18th, 2017

      Also, can you replace one of the “howevers” in the first few sentences?

      Comment by Carina Assunção on February 18th, 2017

      Again,  I think the use of “however” here is inadequate.

      Comment by Carina Assunção on February 18th, 2017

      [ (a shortened version of “documents”)]

      This can be deleted, it was typed in twice.

      Comment by Carina Assunção on February 18th, 2017

      Again, the use of “however” is repetitive and can be easily replaced.

      Comment by Carina Assunção on February 18th, 2017

      If linking this to #gamergate, research such as could be useful. It shows that females are three times more likely to receive negative comments when speaking during the game

      Kuznekoff, J. H., & Rose, L. M. (2013). Communication in multiplayer gaming: Examining player responses to gender cues. New media & society, 15(4): 541-556

      Comment by Carina Assunção on February 18th, 2017

      There should be references throughout the text. Is there a body of research into doxxing, has there been an attempt at defining it (scholarly refs, not websites)? It is an important distinction you make, but is it your own or…?

      Comment by Carina Assunção on February 18th, 2017

      [Dash]

      Who’s Dash? Who is cited is Dewey 2014

      Comment by Carina Assunção on February 18th, 2017

      There’s some inconsistencies with the format on these two long quotes. e.g. “(Dewey 2014)” vs. ” -Felicia Day (2014), on her blog”

      Comment by Carina Assunção on February 18th, 2017

      either that or add an introduction to the paragraph before the signpost. It usually looks weird to finish a section on a long quote like that (Felicia Day 2014)

      Comment by Carina Assunção on February 18th, 2017

      I have a problem with “movement organised”… “the so-called” = it is only so-called because we call it that. and i don’t think we should.

      and with “self-proclaimed” – self-identified makes more sense.

      One more time ‘however’ should not be used here. both sides of the sentence are related to the same thing. the claims for ‘transparency’ = hate campaign against Quinn.

      And another ‘however’ that could have been avoided…

      Comment by Carina Assunção on February 18th, 2017

      [cyber ]

      first time i’m reading this word here. seems out of place

      Comment by Carina Assunção on February 18th, 2017

      [he anonymous and depersonalized nature of online interactio]

      needs a reference

      Comment by Carina Assunção on February 18th, 2017

      [Female gamers and game developers are marginalized and silenced due to being perceived as a threat to free speech or artistic integrity in video games.]

      needs a reference

      Comment by Carina Assunção on February 18th, 2017

      Also, please delete one of the two references to online presence.

      Comment by Carina Assunção on February 18th, 2017

      [In light of GamerGate, …’ (So You’ve Been Doxed 2015). ]

      This sentence is way too long

      Comment by Carina Assunção on February 18th, 2017

      Wheaton’s quote seems out of place and needs some context/comment from the main paragraph.

      Comment by Carina Assunção on February 18th, 2017

      [Generally, women and other marginalized groups use anonymity to protect themselves against discrimination]

      reference?

      Comment by Carina Assunção on February 18th, 2017

      this seems like an introduction to 4chan

      Comment by Carina Assunção on February 18th, 2017

      I wish there were less quotes and more of the authors’ own words and reflections

      Comment by Carina Assunção on February 18th, 2017

      allowed to express hateful ideas and remain anonymous?

      Comment by Carina Assunção on February 18th, 2017

      I don’t like the use of “gamergate ideology” and “male gamers”. 1) It’s not an ideology. 2) it isn’t just male gamers.

      In “stifle their artistic expression” you could cite:

      Chess, Shira and Adrianne Shaw. (March 2015). A Conspiracy of Fishes, or, How We Learned to Stop Worrying About #GamerGate and Embrace Hegemonic Masculinity. Journal of Broadcasting and Electronic Media.

      Comment by Carina Assunção on February 18th, 2017

      This needs references

      Comment by Carina Assunção on February 18th, 2017

      and there’s a typo on “hardermore”, 2 full stops after bias and I think you can delete “life” after offline

      Comment by Carina Assunção on February 18th, 2017

      Yes, I think reference to studies showing how female gamers/game developers have suffered would explain this more clearly

      Comment by Carina Assunção on February 18th, 2017

      [ their identities ]

      their gender identities you mean? Not always the case.

      Comment by Carina Assunção on February 18th, 2017

      I think this is a strong final paragraph but throughout the paper it seems that we came to a halt very quickly, without taking time to reflect on the issues.

      Comment by Carina Assunção on February 18th, 2017

      I quite enjoyed this paper as I am very interested in female gamers and their experience with online harassment.

      I think there’s a good thesis in the paper, the 2 types of doxing and its gendered nature. However, I think it needs quite a bit of work in terms of overall flow, proofreading and how it is informed by the literature.

      I was upsetting to see such great arguments without proper academic references. I’m sure this will turn out to be a great paper once it is revised. Good luck!

      Comment by Stine Eckert on February 21st, 2017

      I would also suggest to find at least another source to strengthen the claim how the term “dox” developed from a nice term to a more often used term. I would not suggest that it has fully arrived in mainstream culture even today.

      Comment by Stine Eckert on February 21st, 2017

      This is a minor comment but referring to the “Internet” via a capitalized word is not common anymore, better to write “internet” to avoid giving this system, which in fact consists of many internets, a “god-like” status. It is a “just a thing” created by people and culture.

      Comment by Stine Eckert on February 21st, 2017

      Apart from setting up the separate concepts of doxing and of privacy earlier with academic sources and studies, I also suggest a brief note on the spelling of doxing which is frequently spelled doxxing as well to clarify that both have been used to refer to the same issue.

      Comment by Stine Eckert on February 21st, 2017

      On the note that the “internet becomes omnipresent” Aidan you should note some general user statistics and context. Are you talking about Western and/or U.S.based internet access and penetration? Worldwide Internet World Stats tells us that while internet penetration is increasing still half the world has not been online. http://www.internetworldstats.com/

      Comment by carolyn.elerding@gmail.com on February 21st, 2017

       
      Aidan,
       
      Terrific research. I find this genealogy of doxing as a gendered term and practice very useful and, as Carol commented, timely. Your work uncovers facets of doxing that I had not seen addressed elsewhere, and since this dangerous phenomenon may unfortunately get worse before getting any better, your article could be of major value to women and femmes in activism, gaming, academe, and other layers of society who are trying to build defense strategies based on a better understanding of where doxing has come from and what directions it might take next.  Bravx!
       
      I have a few minor comments here and there, as you will note, mainly having to do with syntax or small organizational issues that you would probably have noticed as you entered the revision stage anyway, but I hope that they are non-intrusive and possibly helpful.
       
      I also have some remarks to share about the essay overall. First of all, for me, and this has somewhat selfishly! to do with my own interest in articulating the material contexts of online aggression in one of my diss chapters, one of the most important conclusions that you draw is that the two broad categories of doxing intervene in gendered (as well as socially differenced in other ways) experiences of Internet privacy, and that doxing often intensifies the socioeconomic and otherwise material consequences of difference. This is quite major, in my view, and I think you could give it a little more presence in the article—without, of course, taking on too broad an argument. I think that your examples would help to keep further discussion grounded, and another idea would be to mention this critical trajectory in your introduction rather than only in passing during the conclusion. You do give it a lot of attention in the abstract.
       
      Second, I would like to echo the request that others have made for more references to other texts in addition to your apt and interesting use of less conventional sources.
       

      Comment by carolyn.elerding@gmail.com on February 21st, 2017

      The second and third sentences could be combined. There’s a bit of redundancy about anonymity and marginalized groups, and careful readers may be distracted by that, thinking that they are failing to understand a distinction.

      Comment by carolyn.elerding@gmail.com on February 21st, 2017

      This could have to do with differences in our academic formations, but I think it’s more common and possibly more effective to place epigraphs after the section heading.

      Comment by carolyn.elerding@gmail.com on February 21st, 2017

      I support Shira’s critiques about framing the argument more robustly from the beginning. Also, I think that the comment about magazine articles in contrast to academic publishing raises some fruitful questions about where Ada situates itself as an open access journal that offers shorter articles that can appeal to both academic and broader audiences. I was very comfortable, overall, with the register of discourse in this article as an Ada publication. Also, it makes me think about how much of the great work that academic researchers have published on the topic of Internet aggression has been shared in less academic forums, perhaps because the publication process is faster, thus allowing for useful information to find its readership more quickly.

       

      Comment by Stine Eckert on February 21st, 2017

      What is meant by “medial media files”? Are these specific files or is this a typo/unneeded word?

      Comment by Stine Eckert on February 21st, 2017

      What is meant by the “mainstream Internet” — this sounds too generic given that most people who are going online still do not know what is meant by the term doxing/doxxing when asking around, even people who study internet communication may not necessarily know what it is. I suggest to clarify what is meant by mainstream internet.

      Comment by Stine Eckert on February 21st, 2017

      But about psychological risks/harm? How can you assess this risk? C. Abidin on lifestyle bloggers is a good article that speaks in part about retaliatory doxxing by fans of bloggers who were harassed.

      Comment by Stine Eckert on February 21st, 2017

      [Wheaton was not doxed]  Where is the reference for this? Does he say so in his column in the WaPo? Include a proper reference for his column with year in parentheses.

      Comment by Stine Eckert on February 21st, 2017

      Aidan, I agree with the other commentators that you need more citations, especially scholarly studies. I left comments along the individual paragraphs but have one big suggestion in addition to what others have written here. Instead of adding single study suggestions to the parts of your article where appropriate I suggest you delve into the growing academic literature on online abuse, which includes doxing, you should read and weave into your article to strengthen your important points.

      I recommend reading through my article on online abuse just published this January and the many studies that I reference around online abuse, also outside the U.S. context: http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1461444816688457

      Your article wlll be useful for all interested in continuing academic studies on doxing, to clarify what this entails and how it has played out in several case studies, where they overlap in characteristics and where they are different.

      Comment by Radhika Gajjala on February 24th, 2017

      I agree with Carol in that GG was not a cohesive “organized” movement – unless you are able to provide evidence that it was. In fact you contradiction your self by first noting that a movement was organized and then stating that it is a “so-called” movement.

      Comment by Radhika Gajjala on February 24th, 2017

      [became the central hub]

      when you say that it became a central hub – is this your observation – or do you have a citation – if it is your observation – can you point to a rationale for how you see this as a central hub?

      Comment by Radhika Gajjala on February 25th, 2017

      Indeed  – this is such an important topic and a difficult process trying to document a history of the present ….

      Hopefully you can work on a way to elaborate and focus some points earlier on to lead up to this conclusion.

  • Racializing Sexual Identity in the Digital Era: Narrative, Cultural Production, and Resistance Among Black Lesbians in Social Media (89 comments)

    • Comment by Carol Stabile on February 11th, 2017

      It might be good to begin with an example of the forms of exclusion and isolation your informants describe in your interviews with them and use that as a way to set up your analysis.

      Also, I am a bit clear about the temporality of your study. Later in the essay, you talk about how your informants had to recreate their MySpace pages and remember them for this study. Can you lay out the parameters of when you did this research and whether you were studying MySpace and BlackPlanet in the same time frame?

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 11th, 2017

      You say in the abstract and your introduction that you are studying how Black women used their profiles to resist heteronormative narratives, but what you go on to discuss when you get into your interviews are the ways in which these women were also resisting class and the politics of respectability within Black lesbian (or feminist?) circles. You might want to expand your introduction a bit so you can better set up the terms of your analysis.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 11th, 2017

      It’s not clear to me how Hall’s model of identity is useful to your analysis. I’d rather hear how Black feminist thought provides a framework for understanding the complexities of the identities you go on to discuss, which importantly include race, sexualities, and class. Maybe begin this paragraph with that idea and then move into a second paragraph that explains why and how identity formation among LBGTQ communities requires additional examination in online spaces.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 11th, 2017

      In paragraphs 7 to 11, you provide an overview of theories of identity formation that don’t really lead directly or sequentially into your ethnographic research. I think this whole section could be usefully condensed (at roughly 8,000 words, the essay is somewhat lengthy for Ada). Your point about heterogeneity within Black lesbian communities is the really important one here and I think you could talk about that genealogy of Black feminist thinking about lesbian identity more directly and in ways that help set up your ethnographic section.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 11th, 2017

      I wonder if it might be helpful to historicize these forms of thought, if you do decide that they need to be part of this section? These theories are very much locked into a gender binary that has been challenged by a new generation of scholars. I don’t think that this needs to detract from your important focus on Black lesbians, but I think that remarking on this might help address those important theoretical shifts.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 11th, 2017

      You say that stage identity models are useful for your study, but it’s not clear to me how that is the case.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 11th, 2017

      In many ways, this is where your analysis really begins: with constraints that function within specific queer communities — constraints that isolate people who do not conform. Your key point in this article is that social media allow those who feel constrained to express their identities and locate people who might potentially share them with each other.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 11th, 2017

      When did this happen? Other scholars have argued (in the virtual pages of Ada) that femme identities have been devalued and silenced.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 11th, 2017

      There’s so much that’s rich in this paragraph and really important to your analysis. Can you unpack the ideas in this more, especially the distinction between gender expression and sexual orientation identity, which seems really crucial to your argument?

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 11th, 2017

      Isn’t Kennedy & Davis’s point (back in 1993) that class and socioeconomic status were significant for butch-femme communities as well? Your point that class signifies differently in its relationship to race and sexualities is more to the point here.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 11th, 2017

      Are these three physical presentations relevant to your own research? If so, how (and can you say more about what each of them means)?

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 11th, 2017

      Again — so much rich material here that’s worth integrating into the broader framework of your analysis. If I understand this paragraph correctly, you’re saying that poor or working-class Black women tend to identify as lesbian more frequently than middle-class Black women, even if the latter are engaged in relationships that defy heteronormative norms. This point is worth analyzing in more detail.

      Also, the final point of this paragraph really belongs in the set up for this entire analysis. You hint at it when you say that Black feminist theory provides a framework for understanding sexualities in digital spaces, but you really say why that’s the case very clearly at the end of this paragraph.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 11th, 2017

      Here again, I’d like to see these points come much earlier in your analysis.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 11th, 2017

      When you revise, you  might want to pay attention to your subheadings. I find that thinking about subheadings and transitions between sections helps me think about places where my analysis needs more work. In this case, for example, it’s not clear to me how the subheading moves the analysis from the previous paragraph and into the next.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 11th, 2017

      Can you say something about the relationship between Black feminist theories and what you describe as Black digital feminisms (and maybe incorporate the notion of hip-hop feminisms). I’m sorry! That’s a tall order — I don’t mean it to be lengthy, but I think it would help contextualize your research.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 11th, 2017

      This is a thread that runs throughout the paper – “Ignoring the diverse lives of virtual inhabitants also leads to the inability of marginalized bodies to define their own virtual realities.” You mention earlier that among the most important dimensions of Black feminist theory is the insistence of self-definition. This might be a helpful theme as you revise.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 11th, 2017

      This is why I think it would be helpful to thinking of Black digital feminist theory in terms of the broader development of Black feminist theory — which has been central to the development of feminist theory writ large (even as that centrality has been historically repressed). This would allow you to set this up at the beginning and avoid repetition throughout.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 11th, 2017

      Following on my comment on paragraph 31, I think the set-up to your ethnographic research might be summarized as follows (again, if I’m following you properly — let me know if this doesn’t make sense): Black feminist theory provides the kinds of tools feminist need to better analyze digital media (e.g. analyses of interlocking oppressions that function relationally rather than hierarchically; an insistence on the relationship between cultural production and material reality — whether that’s in terms of literary analysis or cultural studies; a keen awareness of the importance of self-naming and the destructive impact of definitions imposed from above or without, etc.) Your ethnographic research already shows how that works.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 11th, 2017

      Re-reading this, I think this section should appear earlier in the essay.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 11th, 2017

      I’m not sure how this section contributes to your broader analysis. Maybe summarize how social media has facilitated both fandom and cultural production, especially from audiences alienated by the racism, misogyny, homophobia, etc. of mainstream media (you might take a look at Kristen Warner’s contribution to Cupcakes, Pinterest, and Ladyporn.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 11th, 2017

      It takes a long time to get to the findings in this article. Your section on research design belongs earlier in the analysis — perhaps after your summary of your theoretical framework?

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 11th, 2017

      Can you more clearly discuss the texts you analyzed for this paper, where they came from, when they were created, who created them, etc.?

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 11th, 2017

      What is the difference between self-identified gender presentation and gender presentation preference? What do you mean by personality type? And why did you ask only about MySpace and BlackPlanet, even if the sites weren’t active in the ways they had been in the past? It would be helpful for readers to have a better understanding of the definitions and choices you made.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 11th, 2017

      When were the interviews conducted? How did you identify interviewees?

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 11th, 2017

      So you’re describing a particular moment in social media history that allowed Black lesbians forms of self-identification and definition not possible on FB and Twitter? Setting up the analysis that way and explaining that more clearly would answer many of the questions I’ve posed.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 11th, 2017

      I hope my comments throughout convey my sense of the importance of this contribution. Most of them are intended to help with the framing of this paper and the organization of its various sections.

      My big comment is this: there seem to be two separate papers in this draft — one a more theoretical meditation about race, sexual identities, and how to think about them and a separate paper (that really takes off around p. 42) about how Black lesbians used two social media spaces to engage in community and self-definition. The trick is going to be how to revise this in a way that lets you set up that second line of inquiry — I’ve tried to provide comments to help with that.

      Comment by Alexis Lothian on February 17th, 2017

      The structure of this sentence makes me ask “deployed by whom?” I wonder if you could clarify that these are narratives encoded in the structure of the site (or if that isn’t quite what you mean, clarify otherwise).

      Comment by Alexis Lothian on February 17th, 2017

      [what Henry Jenkins calls convergence.  Jenkins (2004) defines convergence as a cultural shift wherein “what might traditionally be understood as media producers and consumers are transformed into participants who are expected to interact with each other according to a new set of rules which none of us fully understands” (Jenkins, 2004, p. 3). Although MySpace participants might not be overtly aware of the implications of their actions, they are inevitably “learning how to use these different media technologies to bring the flow of media more fully under their control (Ibid).”  ]

      This use of convergence is not how I would typically understand Jenkins, who uses the term to talk about film and television producers’ shifting relationships with their audiences rather than the structures of social media. The points about consumption and production are good ones, but I am not sure it’s necessary to cite Jenkins to make them, especially in the introduction where you’re laying out the stakes of your essay. I would cut this and replace it with material from your own analysis, as Carol suggests.

      I also agree with her point about clarifying the temporality of the study, since I also had questions about the period that was being discussed and how analysis of an early moment in social media history might help us to understand the way it permeates our media landscapes now.

      Comment by Alexis Lothian on February 17th, 2017

      I agree with Carol’s points regarding the previous section. I find myself skimming these sections, eager to find out how identity practices online have contributed to forming Black lesbian identity and community; and I wonder if it might in fact detract from the impact of the article for you to examine identity formation as if it happens in isolation from individual and collective practices on and off line. I also find myself pausing as I read to dispute the way in which psychological discourse understands gender and sexuality as individualized characteristics rather than historically contingent social and cultural formations. Not having read all the way through yet, I can’t say for sure whether you need this material, but my instinct is to say that you do not and that, if you do, it might well work better to bring it in as necessary within your discussion of the study itself.

      Comment by Alexis Lothian on February 17th, 2017

      The historical context in this section is important, but more generalized than it needs to be; as Elizabeth Freeman’s work on temporal drag makes clear, the story of lesbian history is not one clear historical progression even when limited to majority-white lesbian communities in the USA. I wonder whether, rather than narrating the history here in broad terms, you might connect it to the particular ways that lesbian-identified women socialized? Moving from bars to political communities and then online?

      I also think that you might focus exclusively on Black lesbian communities here, with white lesbian norms cited only in so far as Black lesbians were part of them. Having sections on “lesbian identity” followed by “Black lesbian identity” risks implicitly reproducing the ways that whiteness is centered by being made the unmarked category in the historical and psychological material you are critiquing.

      Comment by Roopika Risam on February 17th, 2017

      I had the same question as Alexis.

      Comment by Roopika Risam on February 17th, 2017

      I agree with Carol as well. I’d love clarification early in the article on the timeframe of your data collection and of the profiles themselves.

      Comment by Roopika Risam on February 17th, 2017

      I think the participatory culture dimension of Jenkins’ work may be useful here. When I read this reference, I think of the shift to participatory cultures online and from consumer to producer. Perhaps participatory culture rather than convergence specifically aligns better?

      Comment by Roopika Risam on February 17th, 2017

      It may be more effective if you foreground your contribution to queer, black, feminist identity creation online, then situate it in the lineage of the other theorists (rather than beginning with the voices of others).

      Comment by Roopika Risam on February 17th, 2017

      My comment is going to echo Carol’s in the paragraph above. This section is begging to have your own voice and your own theoretical contributions foregrounded. How are you pulling these threads together to conceptualize your approach to your research? If you start with you and your theoretical approach to your research, you can pull in some of the other scholarship, but do so as it helps you lay out and unfold your perspective and contribution.

      Comment by Roopika Risam on February 17th, 2017

      Reflecting  my comment at the end of the previous section, this is another that should be grounded in your own claims and arguments in relation to your research and this study.

      Comment by Roopika Risam on February 17th, 2017

      To me, your contribution to/articulation of  black digital feminisms, particularly in relation to queer identity, is what this study and article is about. I want to be there first, at the beginning of your essay, not on paragraph 25. That’s not to say there isn’t important material in the first 25 paragraphs – I think that information would be more useful in the context of how you articulate your black digital feminism contribution and/or in your analysis of your research results themselves.

      Comment by Roopika Risam on February 17th, 2017

      I wonder if you need this subheading. It seems to me that all the pieces of your theme/theory of black digital feminisms would work effectively together in a single section.

      Comment by Roopika Risam on February 17th, 2017

      tiny note – the 6th line here has a typo (eminism instead of feminism)

      Comment by Roopika Risam on February 17th, 2017

      I feel like here we are really getting into the meat of how you are setting up your research and the framework of analysis that you are using. This is what I was looking for much earlier when I said I wanted to see your ideas and theories unfolding, pulling in other scholarship when necessary to elaborate your ideas themselves.

      Comment by Roopika Risam on February 17th, 2017

      It may be worth adding another sentence to define Black Twitter for readers who may be unfamiliar with the term/community/hashtag.

      Comment by Roopika Risam on February 17th, 2017

      Carol’s question is mine as well, but I see the connection to the research you’ve undertaken. I think the subheading is too broad and would urge you to be more specific and connect it to black digital feminisms.

      Comment by Roopika Risam on February 17th, 2017

      This paragraph could use a direct connection to your study in this article.

      Comment by Roopika Risam on February 17th, 2017

      Me too! This needs to come towards the beginning.

      Comment by Roopika Risam on February 17th, 2017

      I want to echo Carol and say that this is such important work and its intervention is an important one. My sense is that with some reorganization, the contribution will be clear.

      Your section on black digital feminisms is where your article becomes most compelling. Based on my knowledge of your work and the title of the article, that’s no surprise. However, I want that first. I want to start by being told here is this exciting work on black digital feminisms and here is where your research study intervenes in and sheds light on it. I then want to know about your methods, and following that, the discussion of your results that then illuminates your intervention in black digital feminisms. All the pieces are here; at times, though, they are sitting in the background while the work of other theorists are in the foreground. With a reorganization, you will put your voice, your contribution, and your interesting results and discussion at the forefront.

      Comment by Alexis Lothian on February 18th, 2017

      [ particular advantage presents itself with the diffusion of information technologies, providing particular advantages to women and people of color.  One of the advantages is the ability to create and control virtual spaces largely unregulated or occupied by privileged bodies.]

      I am sure this will come through in the analysis as it develops, but there seems to me to be an important tension between the idea of spaces being “unregulated” and the ways in which you’ve already described heteronormativity as being embedded in sites’ infrastructures. After all, you’re talking not about a space that Black lesbians created from scratch but rather ways in which they were able to adapt and subvert pre-existing spaces for their ends – and it seems that those spaces did have some kind of regulation and were occupied to some extent by privileged bodies, yet that did not pose an obstacle to groups’ collective space making.

      Comment by Alexis Lothian on February 18th, 2017

      I also wonder here whether you would articulate your research participants as being producers of Black digital feminism – rather than Black digital feminism being a separate framework that you apply to what they are doing?

      Comment by Alexis Lothian on February 18th, 2017

      This reframing makes a lot of sense to me also,especially in the light of the following paragraph, which I read as also effectively summing up the foundational insights of Black feminist thought as it forms a basis for intersectional feminism writ large.

      Comment by Alexis Lothian on February 18th, 2017

      [The Internet has propelled activism and empowerment in that many individuals can take action on a singular issue.]

      I would like some context here, even just in the form of a citation – I understand what is being said, but “the Internet” can mean so many things. Whose activism, whose empowerment? The meaning of this sentence also feels as if it could be very different depending on the historical context – are we discussing the emergence of digital politics in the age of MySpace, given that this will be part of the ethnographic focus? The surges of hashtag campaigns in the 2010s?

      Comment by Alexis Lothian on February 18th, 2017

      Agreed.

      Comment by Alexis Lothian on February 18th, 2017

      “traditional virtual methods” seems an odd formation – perhaps “dominant,” or “best documented”? This is another place where I am wondering about the temporal / historical context of the research – if you’re talking about “early socially mediated spaces,” had blogging and tweeting yet emerged as the dominant / traditional forms?

      Comment by Alexis Lothian on February 18th, 2017

      Is there doubt that social media content is cultural production? What else could it be? Like Carol and Roopika, I am unsure we need the background in this section; I would rather hear, perhaps with some of this material incorporated, about the history of the social media sites that the participants in your study made use of.

      Comment by Alexis Lothian on February 18th, 2017

      [Henry Jenkins believes that digital content creation is capable of operating in unauthorized ways outside of industry control.]

      I don’t mean to come down excessively on your citations of Jenkins, but I would say that your discussions of Black digital feminism have already shown that this idea is not unique to him.

      Comment by Alexis Lothian on February 18th, 2017

      Yes, I also agree with Carol’s suggestion for how to frame the analysis. I think that danah boyd’s article “White Flight in Networked Publics,” which analyses the moment of transition from the customizable to the standardized in social media aesthetics, would be a really useful reference here.

      Comment by Alexis Lothian on February 18th, 2017

      I share Carol’s questions (especially the “when” given my interest in the historical dimensions of your study) and am also wondering whether MySpace and BlackPlanet were the points of entry for your analysis, after which you sought out participants, or whether you came to focus on those sites and their use after learning about how participants used them.

      Comment by Alexis Lothian on February 18th, 2017

      I share Carol’s questions (especially the “when” given my interest in the historical dimensions of your study) and am also wondering whether MySpace and BlackPlanet were the points of entry for your analysis, after which you sought out participants, or whether you came to focus on those sites and their use after learning about how participants used them.

      Comment by Alexis Lothian on February 18th, 2017

      The “personality type” is very confusing to me (does it relate to sexual identities as in top/bottom/switch? Why is this relevant?), as are the nuances of gender presentation. I also wonder whether the ages are the ages at which the participants were active on the sites or the ages at the time of interview.

      Comment by Alexis Lothian on February 18th, 2017

      In addition to Carol’s questions, were the interviews in person or online, and were the interviewees geographically disparate or located in the same area?

      Comment by Alexis Lothian on February 18th, 2017

      When is “the social media era”? During which years (and were those years the same for all participants or do we see practices shifting over time with different participants active at different moments)?

      Comment by Alexis Lothian on February 18th, 2017

      It’s interesting to me that Carla speaks in the present tense about networks that are no longer active. Is this because, though BlackPlanet and MySpace may no longer be active in the ways they once were, the space that she was able to co-create and inhabit through those networks is still a part of her life?

      Comment by Alexis Lothian on February 19th, 2017

      Is it possible to situate “the” Black lesbian community more fully? ie are we talking about a particular location, urban or rural, ages and socioeconomic status of participants, etc? Or are your participants speaking from multiple different perspectives and narrating a shared experience?

      Comment by Alexis Lothian on February 19th, 2017

      I wonder whether it might be useful to include some discussion of the forces that influence middle-class Black lesbian communities to engage in this kind of respectability politics?

      Comment by Alexis Lothian on February 19th, 2017

      I wonder if another way of thinking about this might be that digital culture enables Paula to express her gender and identity the way she does rather than having to shift her form of expression in order to be find partners? What I”m getting at is the ways that social media makes this particular way of being possible, that it’s part of the formation of a gendered identity, rather than just being a means of expression for a pre-existing identity (even as we tend to rely on language that presumes pre-existing identity when we talk about experiences).

      Comment by Alexis Lothian on February 19th, 2017

      Between the earlier moments of sites such as MySpace and our current saturation with social media, dominant discourses have shifted – danah boyd has written a lot about this. I find the use of present tense here to be quite confusing because your participants are talking about social media in the past, and it is a landscape where cultural shifts have been major and rapid. You state that you asked your participants to recall their use of media at an earlier moment, but the interview quotations are in present tense; you state in the abstract that you will be analyzing “early” social media but use present tense in describing the landscape much of the time. I would like to see this unpacked, especially if this fluidity between past and present can tell us something about a specifically Black queer relationship to the temporalities of social media.

      Comment by Alexis Lothian on February 19th, 2017

      This excerpt has especially interesting relationship to time since Nene is reflecting on “back in the day” but shifts into present tense in the course of the passage. It’s as if her former profile, though gone, has become an integrated part of her life and identity…

      Comment by Alexis Lothian on February 19th, 2017

      Some repetition from earlier parts of the article here.

      Comment by Alexis Lothian on February 19th, 2017

      Your interviews highlighted the extent to which “Black lesbian” does not name a single experience but refers to multiple communities and experiences, with particular tensions and conflicts existing around classed gender presentation. Yet in this discussion section, “Black lesbian” seems to become a unified and singular identity.

      Comment by Alexis Lothian on February 19th, 2017

      This paragraph integrates the theory discussed earlier with the interviews in ways that seem very useful – I can imagine this being part of a revised introduction that might lay out why a study of social media is necessary to understanding Black lesbian identity formations.

      Comment by Alexis Lothian on February 19th, 2017

      This insight feels like the beginning of the analysis, not the end. In particular, I would love to see you go from here to explore why it was that the particular frameworks of MySpace and BlackPlanet were so useful in ways that later modes of engagement with social media were not. You hint at this in the excerpts you include, but don’t get into the details. Are young Black lesbians coming out today improverished in the social media options available to them by comparison? Or are they making use of those and other options in new ways?

      Overall, I am excited by the possibilities of this article and find the research important and original. But I would like to see a revision that restructures the piece significantly in order to focus more fully on the insights the research offers – both in terms of the history and temporality of social media and class, age, location in relationship to the formation of Black lesbian identities and communities.

      Comment by Radhika Gajjala on February 19th, 2017

      I love that you take up early social media sites and that you have data from then.

      Comment by Radhika Gajjala on February 19th, 2017

      Kishonna – you seem to be applying several theories to this body of data – perhaps you need to start with a clear look at the data and then weave in the conceptual material and theory.

      [I plan to add on to this comment as I think about the whole article a bit more over the next couple days fyi]

      Comment by carolyn.elerding@gmail.com on February 20th, 2017

       
      Hi, Kishonna. Great project! I am very glad to have read this and I hope to read more of your work in the future. I am sharing brief comments on various passages and then will post a more comprehensive response in my last comment in the conclusion section.
       

      Comment by carolyn.elerding@gmail.com on February 20th, 2017

      Regarding the title,hen I returned to it after my first reading of this essay, it occurred to me that it might be compelling to fine-tune it a bit. In its current form, it is quite general both before and after the colon. More particularity might contribute to an even stronger presentation.

      As for the abstract:The readability of the third sentence might be improved by breaking it up into two or even three. In addition, I feel that the abstract could be organized more efficiently, perhaps by moving from general to specific, or vice versa. I felt similarly about other paragraphs throughout the essay (that a little more work at the organizational level would help to give this compelling research its best presentation by clarifying the logical flow).

      Comment by carolyn.elerding@gmail.com on February 20th, 2017

      I was a bit confused by the sentence that begins: “Incorporating the ongoing…” Perhaps the phrase “once marginalized” threw me off. I understood it better when you used it in later paragraphs, but this first time it didn’t quite make sense for me. Perhaps “historically marginalized” might be clearer?
       

       

      Comment by carolyn.elerding@gmail.com on February 20th, 2017

      I was a bit confused by the sentence that begins: “Incorporating the ongoing…” Perhaps the phrase “once marginalized” threw me off. I understood it better when you used it in later paragraphs, but this first time it didn’t quite make sense for me. Perhaps “historically marginalized” might be clearer?

      Comment by carolyn.elerding@gmail.com on February 20th, 2017

      I find the title to this section very intriguing and compelling. It seems to me that the implications of “accepting” could be drawn out more clearly in the ensuing discussion.

      Comment by carolyn.elerding@gmail.com on February 20th, 2017

      It may need to be the topic of an additional article, but I would like to hear more about this way of thinking about the physicality of the digital (for selfish reasons, partly, because I like to write on that too).
       

      Comment by carolyn.elerding@gmail.com on February 20th, 2017

      Adding on to the other comments on this paragraph regarding the theoretical context you provide:
      I wonder if it would be less or more effective to place the word “code” (in the second sentence) in quotation marks to signal that you are using the term in a distinctive way…or would that possibly invite a trivializing interpretation from some readers? I am not sure, but that moment gave me pause, as did the particular definition of “cultural production” you’re working with. I feel that it would be very helpful to provide a brief explanation of how this definition differs from others. Perhaps the issue is the word “because”—it seems to suggest that cultural production is defined by non-professional contributions? Would “despite” work better, since people without training in cultural studies and pop culture studies might resist the idea of participatory rather than top-down/formal culture…The issue is the high/low culture divide and the focus on professional commercial art that has reinforced inequalities through institutions and commodification?
       

      Comment by carolyn.elerding@gmail.com on February 20th, 2017

      In the first sentence, I would have liked more of an indication of where de Certeau’s assertions end and yours begin…
       
      ·      Overall, this paragraph really deserves further elaboration. I can see the tremendous value of bringing these concepts together, but I’d like to read more right away about what that means for you.
       

       

      Comment by carolyn.elerding@gmail.com on February 20th, 2017

      This paragraph covers a lot of distantly-related theories very quickly. A strong topic sentence might help to sort it out. If the purpose is to pinpoint the degree to which each element in the interlocking and intersecting systems of oppression and exploitation determine social media users’ constructions of their own identities, it would help to adhere closely to that or even expand this into multiple paragraphs in which a particular aspect is addressed by itself, keeping the larger context in mind.
       

      Comment by carolyn.elerding@gmail.com on February 20th, 2017

      I agree with Radhika that only bringing the theoretical concepts in as needed would lead to a more effective presentation.

      Comment by carolyn.elerding@gmail.com on February 20th, 2017

       
      ·      Some of this seems to repeat the previous paragraph, and the last sentence about “personality differences” took me by surprise. Typically, cultural theory engages with difference on a broader scale (or perhaps the point of this sentence was unclear to me). Could this paragraph be combined with the next?
       

      Comment by carolyn.elerding@gmail.com on February 20th, 2017

       
      The first few sentences of this paragraph might be the clearest and most concise statement of your overall thesis and project. It might make sense to rearrange the form of the article so that these strong general descriptions of the project come first or at least show up very early. Also, here it becomes clear that “personality” is relevant to the analysis, whereas when you first brought it up it was hard to see that.
       

       

      Comment by carolyn.elerding@gmail.com on February 20th, 2017

       
      ·      Overall, your paragraphs tend to be a little on the short side. More unpacking would be really helpful (for me, anyway). In this paragraph, for instance, you might consider taking a little more time to set up your claim about Black lesbian as the meaningful whole of identity described by Lorde. In my case, I got a little lost because it seemed to me that Lorde was making a critique (it might help to specify who is doing the encouraging you mention), but then you used the idea in a positive and empowering way…Although in some ways I’d like to see more conciseness in your writing in this essay, as I explain in my overall comments at the end, here it is a little too concise for me to understand as an interdisciplinary reader.
       

      Comment by carolyn.elerding@gmail.com on February 20th, 2017

      These glimpses of the narrators’ personal experience really ground your discussion. Very effective.

       

      Comment by carolyn.elerding@gmail.com on February 20th, 2017

      Apreview of some of this concluding material might be helpful in the introduction, as well as a more specific indication from the beginning of what your findings will be.

      Comment by carolyn.elerding@gmail.com on February 20th, 2017

       
      ·      This could be more a reflection of my own formation than anything else, but it’s unusual (I think) to introduce new theoretical definitions at the end…
       

      Comment by carolyn.elerding@gmail.com on February 20th, 2017

       

      Kishonna,
      Thanks again for sharing this great work. As I mentioned at the beginning, I find the project very worthwhile. My comments have mainly to do with presentation (form or style), and I almost hesitate to bring them up because in my publishing experience (which is still quite limited because I am a grad student) the quality of my drafts, stylistically and in terms of polishing the prose, has had everything to do with time constraints and social dynamics in the academic workplace. However, I am going to go ahead and share my observations, just in case they are useful for you.
      My two main suggestions for strengthening the written presentation of your ideas are: using more transitional devices and providing a clearer organization within each paragraph. I know that some people overuse transitions rather than tracing out implications in more detail, but I don’t think there is much danger of going too far with it in this essay. There were many passages that I felt should be unpacked in more detail, and clearer transitions could help to keep the various threads under control. That would be especially helpful for Ada’s interdisciplinary readers, non-academic readers, or less experienced scholars.
       
      Also regarding organization: many of the paragraphs were quite short, suggesting that some of them could be combined if you were to revisit the organization of each section.
       
      I also wonder how much of the broad conceptual framing could be trimmed or reduced, the better to highlight your particular contribution? Radhika expressed a similar comment really nicely by comparing the incorporation of theoretical references to weaving.
      And finally, as I was reading through for the second time, I started to feel that, rather than keeping this in its current form as a prospectus or thesis obeying disciplinary conventions, you might consider reshaping this essay for more apt presentation as a journal article for an interdisciplinary and potentially general audience.
       
      Most importantly, I learned a great deal from this and am eager to see it in its finished form.
       
      Carolyn
       

      Comment by Radhika Gajjala on February 24th, 2017

      Perhaps if you started with what you are seeing in the contexts you are drawing from for making the arguments – start with that and how those connect up to the larger theoretical points (all excellent but don’t seem grounded in evidence from your research when we first read them) ….

      There is a theoretical commentary and then there is the actual study of the resistance. Starting with instances of resistance may allow you to unpack the intersectional nature of this resistance and help us understand how this is specific to black lesbians (if it is) and also note what else is going on.

      Roopika and Carol have given you good feedback too.

       

  • Perceived Interconnectedness and Web Intimacy in Women’s Lifestyle Blogging (70 comments)

    • Comment by Lori Beth De Hertogh on April 26th, 2015

      Can you briefly explain why you’ve chosen to use this term, as opposed to the other ones you list?

      Comment by Lori Beth De Hertogh on April 26th, 2015

      Love this term!

      Comment by Lori Beth De Hertogh on April 26th, 2015

      Why not say “I will look…”? Papers don’t really “look,” after all. 🙂

      Comment by Lori Beth De Hertogh on April 26th, 2015

      It would be nice to see you reference scholarship on blogging in this section.

      Comment by Lori Beth De Hertogh on April 26th, 2015

      I like that you contrast these two. But I’m wondering if you can’t further explain your use of the phrase “soft infrastructure” and perhaps reduce some of the jargon introduced in paragraph 16?–e.g. “flat scaffolding,” “co-produce discursive dialogue,” “bidirectional conversation,” etc.  Doing so would increase readability and make your piece accessible to a broader audience.

      Comment by Lori Beth De Hertogh on April 26th, 2015

      It might be helpful to pull the lens out here—perhaps talk about the broader implications and value of your work. What, for instance, does your scholarship reveal about these types of social media relationships that we may not be aware of or tend to overlook?

      Also, I’d like to see you tighten things up and create connections between the diverse terms/concepts you’ve introduced throughout the article and comment on their overall value to scholarship on intimacy and blogging. (You might also comment on this in your introduction.)
       
      I very much enjoyed reading your piece and look forward to reading and citing your work in the future! 

      Comment by Radhika Gajjala on April 26th, 2015

      perhaps note that this is not unique to Singapore? here or elsewhere…This is part of a larger women centered prosumer movement

      Comment by Radhika Gajjala on April 26th, 2015

      I agree with Lori – you need to explain why this term – also are you claiming this is unique to Singapore – if so how and what parts of this phenomenon is specific to the context of women from Singapore – perhaps that is coming later .

      Comment by Radhika Gajjala on April 26th, 2015

      you jump too quickly to this without laying the ground/transition for “intimacy”… perhaps foreground this a little in the previous intro section by noting that this is one of the themes? also what are you calling intimacy? – a quick example here maybe and then proceed to explaining how it is a performative strategy – and to what end?

      define and show what it is you are referring to as “intimacy” – is this idea coming out of the texts you looked at or from the interviews or a combination of both -what does this intimacy ash performative strategy look like?

      Comment by Radhika Gajjala on April 26th, 2015

      again – show how this negotiation of intimacy occurs in your data…

      Comment by Radhika Gajjala on April 26th, 2015

      for instance? what do you mean by perceive interconnectedness – a quick recap of the Abidin 2013 key argument and how it connects to web intimacy – missing definitions of both perceived interconnectedness and of web intimacy – I don’t get a sense of what each means – so help me out a bit – maybe with quick illustrations from your data here -even if you may have done so later in the article.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on April 30th, 2015

      You raise so many fascinating points from your research that point to the gendered nature of the practices you describe throughout this contribution and the ethnographic research you refer to sounds rich. But you do not go on to address the gendered dimensions of either the theoretical model you employ (and Horton & Wohl’s model was implicitly if not explicitly about media practices considered to be feminized) or the practices in which the bloggers are engaged. 

      As I understand your focus — the first sentence of this paragraph – you intend to address “how commercial lifestyle bloggers in Singapore capture and sustain the interest of their readers.” But what follows seems to focus instead on the theoretical contribution you make rather than that topic. It would help to have a clear statement about the purpose of the essay in this first section and how your research supports that purpose.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on April 30th, 2015

      Following from my first comment, how is this paper ethnographically situated? It’s not clear to me from what follows how your ethnographic research informs this particular paper.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on May 4th, 2015

      You end on a provocative note vis a vis gender and new media — that there are men who read the blog, despite bloggers’ address to readers they understand to be women. Can you cite the estimate, first of all? And second, why is it worth noting that these intimacies are performed by and for people who identify as women?

      Comment by Carol Stabile on May 4th, 2015

      To echo Radhika’s comments above, I think the four questions you set out in this short section need to be situated first within your theoretical framework and the specific goals of this analysis.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on May 4th, 2015

      I am curious as to why you use Horton & Wohl’s Cold War model rather than any of the more recent feminist scholarship on intimacy, especially Kavka’s book on reality television and intimacy and Gregg’s Work’s Intimacy. Gregg in particular is directly relevant to what you’re theorizing in this.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on May 4th, 2015

      Also, is there any form of interconnectness that isn’t perceived?

      Comment by Carol Stabile on May 4th, 2015

      Why limit these connections to television and radio? Weren’t film stars the first examples of these (for women, at least — I suppose that one sports stars would be the equivalent for audiences considered male).

      Comment by Carol Stabile on May 4th, 2015

      It might be helpful to provide some gloss or explanation for your categories. I’m not clear, for example. on what “scaffolding of actors” means or why it would be considered to be flat in your theoretical model.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on May 4th, 2015

      Is privacy play a trope? Or is it a practice?

      Comment by Carol Stabile on May 4th, 2015

      So in privacy play, bloggers are engaging in practices that are not that dissimilar from the ways in which stars have produced affective public images, e.g. through teasers that suggest that the reveal is going to be greater than it actually is, by disclosing some “intimate” details to simulate closeness. Why is this kind of play important to the subject of your article? Can you situate it within the broader framework of the subject of intimacy and new media?

      Comment by Carol Stabile on May 4th, 2015

      Why is it important that these bloggers are in “heterosexual romantic relationships”? Also, you seem to be saying that they publish “carefully curated photographs,” but also that they feature details about “the blogger’s less polished and everyday facets of life.” I’m not sure what point you’re making in this and I’d also like to see the assertions supported by examples from your research.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on May 4th, 2015

      This sentence is much clearer in explaining what you mean by play in these forms of communication. It would still be helpful to have them supported by examples from your research — and it would make the description richer as well.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on May 4th, 2015

      None of this seems specific to blogging or “new” in any meaningful sense. In fact, these seem tried and true strategies from older media, like fan magazines or even 1980s behind-the-scenes entertainment news.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on May 4th, 2015

      Can you unpack the first sentence of this? I’m not sure that I fully understand what you mean by “the affordances accorded by the mechanisms of Perceived Interconnectedness” in particular.

      And I think that you are really on to something in this paragraph, once you begin describing the practices you’re looking at. While (as I point out above) a lot of the practices you associate with play have origins in more traditional media and related fan practices, you’re talking about something very distinct in this paragraph — the ability of bloggers and their fans to create additional content very quickly and across multiple platforms. I’m not sure how this relates to soft structure — it seems to me to be more a matter of speed up enabled by new media technologies. Worth exploring.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on May 4th, 2015

      I think you mean “accessible” rather than “passable” in line 2? You might also want to take a look at Cottom’s contribution to Ada, Issue 7, where she provides an excellent overview of the notion of microcelebrity (it’s part of a broader analysis of academics and microcelebrity, but I think her definition might be helpful).

      Comment by Carol Stabile on May 4th, 2015

      Focusing on the conceptual framework for this paper will help a lot with revising your conclusion. I’d like to see this contribution be more in conversation with the scholarship on intimacy and affect — how does your framework or research enhance that field or move it forward?

      Comment by ellenklowden on May 12th, 2015

      (1) I tend to be a little comma-happy, as I tend to punctuate written text with commas where I would pause for emphasis, if I were reading it aloud. So I am wondering if others would also see value in adding commas in the following locations: (a) between “lives” and “‘as lived'”; (b) between “their sites” and “in”; (c) between “advertorials” [which, btw, is a new term to me; thank you] and “which”. (2) I am not entirely sure I am correctly understanding the following: “In fact, these women are increasingly substituting mainstream television and cinema celebrities as spokespersons and ambassadors for a wide variety of campaigns and initiatives.” As presently written, it would appear to me that this sentence states that the young women in social media referred to in the first sentence are the subjects, and tv/cinema celebs are the objects, and the action that the subjects are performing on the objects is substituting. But in that construction, it wouldn’t say for what or with whom they are substituting. I wonder whether what is intended is to say that those young women in social media are “replacing” or “becoming substitutes for” those tv/cinema celebrities. Or perhaps “becoming as famous as”. Thank you.

      Comment by ellenklowden on May 12th, 2015

      Or if Singapore is the sole focus, include that in the title?

      Comment by ellenklowden on May 12th, 2015

      I’m wondering how we define “young,” here, and how we define “women,” here. Should we have footnotes or parenthetical clarifications?

       

      Comment by ellenklowden on May 12th, 2015

      (1) I’m not sure about the phrase “hold influence over” being parallel to dabbling and modelling (which, btw, I believe can have 1 or 2 l’s, varying with hemisphere). “Holding influence over” an industry, to me, would have more to do with having a top-paying executive job, having an ownership or managerial role. Perhaps that is just my own bias. (2) I’m not sure about the phrase, “co-opted”. To me, that term has a negative connotation, of assimilating someone’s talent for purposes that have no benefit to the other; whereas I don’t know that these women are not deliberately seeking and enjoying these speaking engagements. This is the definition for to co-opt, from Merriam-Webster online dictionary: to cause or force (someone or something) to become part of your group, movement, etc.
      : to use or take control of (something) for your own purposes. It might be that this is precisely the definition that our author intends. However, do we know that this is how the women referred to in the article feel? Do they feel that they were forced, or used for nefarious ends, rather than that they participated in the public speaking engagements as self-promotion, as public service, or for any other purpose that was of their own choosing?

      Comment by ellenklowden on May 12th, 2015

      I was wondering about this term, “larger collective imaginary.” Is that distinct from “larger collective imagination”?

      Generally, I see “high-profile” hyphenated.

      “class” should be “classes,” for parallel phrasing with the other plurals in its sentence.

      “they are contracted to” would be more grammatically expressed a “to which they are contracted”.

       

      Comment by ellenklowden on May 12th, 2015

      Are you referring to “the attention economy”? That is a new term for me, and so fitting!

      Comment by ellenklowden on May 12th, 2015

      I’m interested in your assertion that ‘Perceived Interconnectedness’ is “a form of intimate communication that I developed”. Could you please help me understand? Are you stating that that is a term that you coined, about a phenomenon that you happened to observe? Or are you stating that it is a behavior trend that you personally started, as one of the original bloggers and/or followers of bloggers?

      Also, I feel that naming something as having a “predominantly female readership” would feel more solid if we are able to provide any kind of statistic, as to what percentage of readership is female.

      Comment by ellenklowden on May 12th, 2015

      The terms ‘privacy play’ and ‘soft structure,’ as used here, are new to me. Are we considering including a glossary or footnotes, or are these terms with which everyone else is already familiar, and I need to brush up on some media-savvy terms? 🙂

      Comment by ellenklowden on May 12th, 2015

      Typically, there are not hyphens after adverbs; “ethnographically situated” would not be hyphenated. There should be a comma between “fieldwork in Singapore” and “in which”.

      I’d be curious how content analysis was engaged; it could be helpful to other researchers to know, for example, did you set up your own database? What languages or software did you use for querying and categorizing, etc.?

       

       

       

       

      Comment by ellenklowden on May 12th, 2015

      I’d like to echo the above post, and, while I am not familiar with any accounts from Singapore, 2 of the bloggers I do follow write *very* personally in their blogs, even though they do, also, have items that are sometimes sold (such as fandom t-shirts, autographs, performances). See, e.g., Felicia Day; Amanda Palmer. That is to say, I don’t think that commercial accounts are intrinsically devoid of personal intimacy.

      Comment by ellenklowden on May 12th, 2015

      Might there have been comparable connections prior to cinema; e.g., with stage performers, with icons accorded fanfare, e.g., philosophers, royalty?

      Comment by ellenklowden on May 12th, 2015

      Is “boyd” deliberately lower-case?

      “quantity” “and” “circulation” — > “lend,” rather than “lends”.

      This “collective imaginary,” perhaps it is common jargon? It is new to me.

      Comment by ellenklowden on May 12th, 2015

      Top-down would probably be hyphenated.

      Comment by ellenklowden on May 12th, 2015

      Isn’t the bidirectional conversation also “many-to-one” (as when thousands of fans comment on, like, share, add comments to something by the blogger)?

      Comment by ellenklowden on May 12th, 2015

      This sounds entirely subjective. Unless the author includes criteria as to what constitutes “truly intrusive” or “truly invasive” or “intensely intimate and personal” information, how do we know it is only an “illusion” of an “intimate sharing”? Also, all other references have had commas between proper noun and year.

      Comment by ellenklowden on May 12th, 2015

      I’m more used to seeing “somber”. I’d add a comma: “an intimate, yet ambivalently.

      Comment by ellenklowden on May 12th, 2015

      I’d add a comma after “struggles”.

      Comment by ellenklowden on May 12th, 2015

      And after “personal struggles”.

      Comment by ellenklowden on May 12th, 2015

      I’d add commas: (a) between “BTS posts” and “it”; (b) between “reader interest” and “because”. I’d add “because it” between “and” and “conveys”.

      Comment by ellenklowden on May 12th, 2015

      I agree. What is it that is new? Is it women being accorded space for writing? Is it women being accorded space for fandom? Also consider hyphenating “ugly-duckling-to-swan” and adding a comma between “processes’ and “especially”.

      Comment by creatrixtiara on May 14th, 2015

      > “Holding influence over” an industry, to me, would have more to do with having a top-paying executive job, having an ownership or managerial role. 

      I read this as talking about social influence – reflecting the earlier paragraph’s comment about how these bloggers are now influential enough to the public to be able to command advertising and media spots – spaces that originally were reserved for a lucky few. This would arguably make them more influential than executives or managers, because they’re in the public eye and are recognizable.

      Comment by creatrixtiara on May 14th, 2015

      Possibly because they mainly produce written blogs rather than use Instagram or YouTube? I’ve noticed that in the US and the general Western world, there’s a stronger push towards Instagram and YouTube for lifestyle Internet content, whereas in places like Singapore “traditional” blogging holds more sway.

      Comment by creatrixtiara on May 14th, 2015

      She explains that later in the paragraph – she was a shadow manager for blog talent agencies and being a PA.

      Comment by creatrixtiara on May 14th, 2015

      I think her point is that the personal intimacy, even if it was sincere, holds commercial gain: they create bonds with their readers and fans, which makes the fans more eager to purchase merchandise or provide financial support. Fans think of these celebs as “friends”, and support & promote them as “friends”, maybe hoping to one day be welcomed in their favourite celeb’s personal circles. Some cites:

      http://www.tiara.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/marwick_boyd_to_see_and_be_seen.pdf

      http://www.participations.org/Volume%209/Issue%202/17%20Baym.pdf

      There’s been some backlash against the idea:

      http://www.xojane.com/fashion/fatshion-blogging-ate-itself-natalie-perkins

      Comment by juliaticona on May 16th, 2015

      I think a part of the problem is that there aren’t questions in this short section, but there should be. Also, I completely agree that if these sections are re-phrased as questions for empirical analysis, then they should be preceded by theoretical framework & goals.

      Comment by juliaticona on May 16th, 2015

      I second these concerns about the definition(s) of intimacy they’re employing. The next section compares the kind of intimacy this group of bloggers have with their audiences to an implied “normal” or “authentic” intimacy between two friends or romantic partners. Since intimacy is such a historically and sociologically variable phenomenon (see Illouz 2012, Pugh 2015), a definition or context would be really helpful for the reader and the analysis too!

      Comment by creatrixtiara on May 17th, 2015

      It might be interesting to compare the cost-benefits of IRL events compared to online events. I’m also thinking of the limitations of free speech as it pertains to Singapore (e.g. the Speaker’s Corner) – I think your bloggers are largely apolitical but was this something they considered?

      Comment by creatrixtiara on May 17th, 2015

      Perceived vs Actual, perhaps?

      Comment by creatrixtiara on May 17th, 2015

      If it’s a reference to danah boyd, then yes.

      Comment by creatrixtiara on May 17th, 2015

      It might be interesting to explore what the readers get out of the interaction. Have any of them experienced greater success themselves thanks to attention from one of your bloggers? (See the TV Tropes article about Promoted Fanboy:http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PromotedFanboy)

      Comment by creatrixtiara on May 17th, 2015

      Re curated photographs: Even the supposedly “less polished” slices of life are usually carefully chosen (and edited) to create a coherent brand. Readers THINK they have insider information, but it’s still very carefully chosen, which I think is the main thesis of her paper.

      Comment by creatrixtiara on May 17th, 2015

      It’s “sneak peeks”.

      Comment by creatrixtiara on May 17th, 2015

      She talks about real-time and immediate updates, which is definitely new: you don’t get that level of immediate interactivity in older media, since you had to wait for stuff to be published and edited and distributed.

      Comment by Radhika Gajjala on May 18th, 2015

      I think this is very interesting – and needs to be explained a bit more – is this unique to Singapore? (I don’t think so) – if so – how and if not – how does this connect with other such crafting out of micro-celebrity personas as a career.

      Comment by Radhika Gajjala on May 18th, 2015

      I agree with the points your making Ellen – this para just needs clarification and elaboration.

      Comment by creatrixtiara on May 18th, 2015

      This piece about Taylor Swift and her Instagram pics of her friends reminded me of yours: http://www.buzzfeed.com/annehelenpetersen/kaylor-forever

      Comment by juliaticona on May 19th, 2015

      This section reads more as findings than as an introduction or framework. Maybe the author could foreground her contributions given the existing research conversation and preview these interesting findings more briefly here.

      Comment by juliaticona on May 20th, 2015

      Some evidence of the motivations of the bloggers to construct “clickbait” or the garner more traffic to their sites with their stories of conflict is necessary here. You mentioned earlier that you did interviews with a few of these bloggers, that data would be helpful here.

      Comment by ellenklowden on May 23rd, 2015

      Thank you

      Comment by ellenklowden on May 23rd, 2015

      Interesting, I hadn’t thought of it that way, thank you

      Comment by ellenklowden on May 23rd, 2015

      Interesting.

      Comment by ellenklowden on May 23rd, 2015

      Cool 🙂

      Comment by ellenklowden on May 23rd, 2015

      Aha.

  • WP:THREATENING2MEN: Misogynist Infopolitics and the Hegemony of the Asshole Consensus on English Wikipedia (67 comments)

    • Comment by joseph.2011@reagle.org on January 12th, 2015

       BTW: These links are not working for me but I’m new to this platform.

      Comment by joseph.2011@reagle.org on January 12th, 2015

      typo: .” . 

      Comment by Bryce Peake on January 12th, 2015

      There was recently a study of online commenting practices by gender that demonstrated men are likely to contest the evidence produced/given to support arguments regarding gender bias in the sciences. Extrapolated a bit, but not beyond the realm of possibility, that study seems to accentuate what is happening here. 

      Comment by maggiemacaulay on January 20th, 2015

       this is a very interesting point!

      Comment by maggiemacaulay on January 20th, 2015

       “but, rather, through debates about the value of including this “type” of content on Wikipedia as per WP:.”- is WP: meant to be open? Maybe a clarification for readers unfamiliar with the lingo would be helpful (i.e. wikipedia’s rules, or something)

      Comment by maggiemacaulay on January 20th, 2015

      “protecting me from feminist bias”- pointing out to the reader that ‘feminist bias’ is a common accusation on Wikipedia would be helpful

      Comment by maggiemacaulay on January 20th, 2015

      “constituted scientistic discourses” – constituted within?

      Comment by maggiemacaulay on January 20th, 2015

       WP:THREATENING2MEN- I <3 this

      Comment by maggiemacaulay on January 20th, 2015

      I wonder if providing some statistics to frame the problem of campus sexual violence would be useful. Might be a good setup and hook for the reader

      Comment by maggiemacaulay on January 20th, 2015

       “In the third section, I demonstrate the ways in which these the deference to these policies, in spite and/or despite the empirical nature of “feminist bluster,” are used to produce the “hegemony of the asshole consensus,” drawing on the philosophical work of Aaron James and Antonio Gramsci.”- this is excellent but I think it could be broken up into shorter sentences

      Comment by maggiemacaulay on January 20th, 2015

       (Schaffer, 1991)

      Comment by maggiemacaulay on January 20th, 2015

       “a stake in the metapragmatic universe”

      Comment by maggiemacaulay on January 20th, 2015

       might want to cite this here somewhere http://adanewmedia.org/2014/07/issue5-raval/

      Comment by maggiemacaulay on January 20th, 2015

       “but rather “feelings” that “political” information was not information at all.”- the irony of online manfeelz set against women’s so-called irrational and emotional nature. oy.

      Comment by maggiemacaulay on January 20th, 2015

       ” Because campus sexual violence disproportionately affects women, who are located within institutions traditionally gendered male,”

      Comment by maggiemacaulay on January 20th, 2015

      /maleprivilege.”male privilege.”

      Comment by maggiemacaulay on January 20th, 2015

      line 48: of reliability. (Reagle, 2010; Bruns, 2008; Lih, 2009; Leitch, 2014; Burke, 2012)period comes after

      Comment by maggiemacaulay on January 20th, 2015

       move period to end of line 54.

      Comment by maggiemacaulay on January 20th, 2015

      effecting the content – rather than sociotechnical solutions to fighting off, or  affecting?

      Comment by maggiemacaulay on January 20th, 2015

      one of the other problems with reducing people to ‘assholes’ is that it individualizes the problem of sexism, as if it is a bad personality trait rather than a historical fact

      Comment by maggiemacaulay on January 20th, 2015

       add more women, stir.- cite Harding, 1986

      Comment by maggiemacaulay on January 20th, 2015

       the fact that it’s called a ‘gender gap’ is another sign of the problem because it reinforces the idea that only women have gender, and therefore gender issues are women’s problems somehow siloed from “other” (re: more legit) problems

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 2nd, 2015

      I feel like you just drop your reader into this paper. Might be nice to either do what Maggie suggests above (provide context on the broader issue of campus sexual violence) or talk about what led you to be sitting at your computer, spending five hours creating this category. In a paragraph. 

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 2nd, 2015

       The first part of this paragraph is really clear to me, but the second half (from “more to the logic of all of the edits” on) is less so. First, I think you mean “overarching logic” or “implicit logic” because everyone seems to have invoked a range of rules to disagree with the information you had provided. Second, does the type of deletion (speedy or otherwise) matter to your argument? If it does, you should explain the difference. And finally, that’s a strong final clause (“this group of Wikipedians”). Can you set it up more clearly?

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 2nd, 2015

      What do you mean by “misogynist infopolitics”? Is that your phrase?

      In final sentence, you bring in “consensus,” but that’s your first mention of it. Can you explain how that relates?

      And also break this paragraph up into two for ease of reading. 

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 2nd, 2015

      Why raise Durkheim if you’re not going to use him?

      Also, you say “seemingly banal” Wiki Policies, but I think you mean seemingly reasonable? 

      Last two sentences delete, maybe? They don’t seem to follow from what precedes.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 2nd, 2015

      Do you mean Wikipedians of all genders in the final sentence (who may not enjoy male privilege in a strict sense but participate in the misogyny of Wikipedia in order to survive there)? 

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 2nd, 2015

      Yes — clarifying that would be helpful. You’re asking readers to remember a lot of possibly unfamiliar material in this, so it might be helpful to define and also repeat definitions or glosses here and there. 

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 2nd, 2015

      Also, break up this paragrph — maybegin new paragraph at “The expertise of Wikipedians on all things Wikipedia . . . ” 

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 2nd, 2015

      Might be good to unpack that long sentence beginning “As activist ethnographers have long argued.” There’s a lot of important work going on in that sentence and would be helpful to break it down a bit. 

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 2nd, 2015

      You need a transition here — the preceding paragraph feels like the concluding one. Maybe move this to your conclusion? 

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 2nd, 2015

      I’m not sure if this section should start with that assertion. If you’re talking about the demographics of editors, as you are in this opening paragraph, then you need to also talk about how all groups  (but white men of a particular age and class position) are underrepresented on Wikipedia. I think that what you’re getting at is that there’s very little that makes Wikipedians (and Redditers) madder than discussions of gender and feminism.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 2nd, 2015

       If accusing Wikipedia culture of being trollish and misogynistic is a strategy for silencing people who challenge feminism, then it isn’t a very good one, eh?

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 2nd, 2015

       Revise for clarity: the debate that ensued among Wikipedians was also not motivated by knowledge per se. Rather the debate among Wikipedians centered around  Wikipedia’s various rules  for what counts as knowledge. 

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 2nd, 2015

      Can you gloss the implications of that awful mastectomy article? 

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 2nd, 2015

      So it’s clear that the intent isn’t to improve content (e.g. add the missing men or “proper” research), but to prevent publication of content? 

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 2nd, 2015

       This paragraph also needs to be broken down. And in the concluding sentence, do you want to bring back in the distinction you make between misogyny and male privilege? Because I think you’re talking about the former here and not the latter.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 2nd, 2015

       How does gender violence intersect with race in the case of survivors of color? In the Rice case, that seems more complicated, and I would argue, in cases of campus sexual assault, many of the most high-profile cases involve athletes of color rather than the white fraternity brothers who are more often the perps. Would it be more accurate to say that Wikipedians are more likely to attack feminist critics than anti-racist critics, if that’s even true? In the end, it might make the most sense to stick to what is clear — the obvious misogyny of Wikipedia and Reddit and your argument about male privilege and misogyny — than to try to make a comparison?

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 2nd, 2015

      Can you unpack the first part of the first sentence? 

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 2nd, 2015

      Hmm. I wonder if you were to add a section on the history of women’s education at each of the universities, which would start with History (e.g. Princeton first accepted women in 1969, Dartmouth was the last of the Ivies in 1972). Then you could document the lawsuits based on discrimination against women across a forty year period. I think it’s the assumption that sexual and gender-related violence doesn’t have a history that is so indicative of male privilege and misogyny. 

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 2nd, 2015

      There’s a dimension of male privilege at work in this erosive process as well and that’s the parallel shift that many women experience. Who has the time to engage in these endless acts of wiki-lawyering (and the disposition)?  

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 2nd, 2015

       And here again, where Wikipedians submit, many potential editors simply walk away.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 2nd, 2015

      Would be good to cite “Add Women and Stir” in your own article. 

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 2nd, 2015

      As I noted on “Add Women and Stir,” I think that the add women and stir approach also demands that women assume the responsibility for changing cultures (see Sarah Ahmed’s book on inclusion, too). When it is assumed that women and people of color are going to bear the weight of fixing hostile climates, we put them in perilous positions.  

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 2nd, 2015

      As I was re-reading this, it occurred to me that you need to think about who the audience for this paper is more clearly. At some points, it seems that you want to contribute to scholarship in STS; at other points, you seem to be addressing a more general readership. This is a really important question to sort out as you revise.

      Comment by Kate O'Riordan on February 3rd, 2015

      Fascinating and well developed article.  This develops a really important critique and works powerfully.Overall style comments: I thought that longer sentences could be broken up for flow and clarity – this is quite dense material and although well expressed it could be made an easier read.  The links don’t work in this version.  Framing and content – I liked the hegemony of the asshole consensus – clear and cleverly developed – you might bring in the James a bit earlier though. I found the WP: Threatening2Men formulation less helpful – it adds challenges to the readability of the article and I wasn’t totally convinced that using a WP term as a critical tool to explain the WP panoply was helpful.  I felt that this formation might work better without the WP bit – especially in the last line. The paragraph that opens with Durkheim felt like it could do with a revisit – I am not sure that defining other WikiPedia ethnographies in this way is that clear – and I am also not sure about the claim to ethnography here – clearly you are using ethnographic methods – but I wondered why you needed such as strong claim for this as an ethnography and what is at stake in that. Given that you do use this – it raises questions about your relation with the other of your work ‘the wikipedian’ especially in terms of your own ethical reflection about your encounter with this other. I like the way that you work with Latour – and I think it is a great fit and ties in wonderfully with the lawyer position. I did also wonder if this might need greater in text elaboration for non-Latourians – especially the figure of the disputer. I wondered at the end if it would be helpful to come back to the point about secrecy that you open with.  This seems like a potential direction for some of this discussion – i.e. secrecy and censorship – not just silence. In terms of another intellectual riff – I was reminded at times of Ahmed on being a Killjoy – “Does the feminist kill other people’s joy by pointing out moments of sexism”

      Comment by carolyn.elerding@gmail.com on February 8th, 2015

      A truly impactful and eye-opening piece of work, full of serious implications for wiki-editing, STS, organization studies, and beyond, and I’m really glad to have read it. I’m going to read Aaron James at the earliest opportunity.My main suggestion would be, in general, to clarify and expand upon the relationships among the many densely packed ideas and claims going into this important argument and discussion.Many of my comments are meant to help improve readability and relate my experience reading the article from beginning to end for the first time. My criticisms should be read against a backdrop of overwhelming enthusiasm!  

      Comment by carolyn.elerding@gmail.com on February 8th, 2015

      I, too, would appreciate some introductory contextualization of the argument and theoretical framework as well as a segue into the vivid description of your experience. Perhaps the first three paragraphs could be moved to a later portion of the paper.  

      Comment by carolyn.elerding@gmail.com on February 8th, 2015

      I wonder if you mean to use the term “discrete” rather than “discreet”? Could you clarify what sort of object “WP:THREATENING2MEN” is at this point, just very briefly as a kindness to the reader?  

      Comment by carolyn.elerding@gmail.com on February 8th, 2015

      My lack of experience with wiki-editing may be showing, but I’m probably not the only interested reader who could use some help with terminology. By “self-described” do you mean self-reporting, as in the editor creates the summary of the edit?I think the claim made in the final sentence warrants a bit more discussion. Who are these reason-bound “quantitative scholars”? Are they strictly empiricist or positivist? Are Iosub et alia exemplary of these scholars (in which case, you might want to use the indication: see, for example), or do they discuss them? It becomes clear in the next paragraph, but why not make it clear when you introduce them?   

      Comment by carolyn.elerding@gmail.com on February 8th, 2015

      Upon first reading, the first sentence confused me grammatically because I wasn’t sure whether the final clause was linked with the verb “examine” or “means.” I hope that makes sense!Your thesis (stated in sentence three) is marvelous and deserves pride of place in the structure of the paragraph and the article as a whole. For this reason, I, too, think that the last two sentences could be removed or at least relocated. I find it the complication of the relationship you’ve mentioned between 1) quantitative discourse and 2) what I would call rationalism to be important. It might be worthwhile to mention, at some point, that many forms of ethnography are very quantitative, indeed. 

      Comment by carolyn.elerding@gmail.com on February 8th, 2015

      Terrific! I’m finding this very engaging. If it’s relevant to your research and argument, I think it would be interesting to read your thoughts on non-cisgendered and non-males internalizing and mobilizing patriarchal advantage and misogyny, as well…I see that you do mention that in Paragraph 53.  

      Comment by carolyn.elerding@gmail.com on February 8th, 2015

      I, too, feel that breaking this paragraph up would be beneficial. The fourth sentence, for instance, is so powerful that it needs to be focused and amplified, whereas in the current draft its treatment seems muffled and transient.At the end, I found myself wanting explanation of your use of the term “empirical.” Perhaps a paragraph or footnote explaining the methodological parameters of your study on this level? I feel reasonably certain that I understand what you’re trying to do, which I would describe as a flipping of the prevailing editorial script on Wikipedia, but the way that you’re using “empirical,” “image,” and “space” is refractory to me…I’m only one reader! Others might interpret it differently or better. Regardless, I think it’s important to give your exposition of the epistemological stakes the strongest presentation possible.  

      Comment by carolyn.elerding@gmail.com on February 8th, 2015

      In the last sentence, I’m wondering if “machinations” might be a better term than “mechanisations”?  

      Comment by carolyn.elerding@gmail.com on February 8th, 2015

      I agree that the sentence containing “feminist bluster” would benefit from some unpacking.  

      Comment by carolyn.elerding@gmail.com on February 8th, 2015

      The third sentence is potentially misleading due to repetition.  

      Comment by carolyn.elerding@gmail.com on February 8th, 2015

      Even after reading the footnote (#7), I’m left uncertain as to your use of the term “dialectical” here. Is it related to the placelessness you refer to in the closing sentence of the paragraph? A transitional device would be very helpful here.  

      Comment by carolyn.elerding@gmail.com on February 8th, 2015

      It seems to me that this portion of the essay ought to be among the first to receive careful attention as you revise. Throughout the essay, the potential is obvious in those areas where it isn’t exactly manifest just yet! It’s obviously just a matter of chasing down loose ends and controlling the logical flow, though that might involve making some difficult decisions. It might be wise to rework the last sentence, which could easily be misconstrued.  

      Comment by carolyn.elerding@gmail.com on February 8th, 2015

      Wow. Sigh.  

      Comment by carolyn.elerding@gmail.com on February 8th, 2015

      Could some of these concluding remarks be hinted at a bit more in an introductory section? Specifically, the brief explanation of “WP:THREATENING2MEN” could be useful earlier on, though I recognize the rhetorical value of building up to it.  

      Comment by carolyn.elerding@gmail.com on February 8th, 2015

      With respect to the last sentence of this paragraph, I think it would be valuable to say more about the consequences of defining consensus in this way.  

      Comment by carolyn.elerding@gmail.com on February 8th, 2015

      As an interested reader but non-experienced Wikipedian, I had trouble following the last two sentences.  

      Comment by carolyn.elerding@gmail.com on February 8th, 2015

      Could you elaborate on the relation between maleness and the legal profession? I have no doubt in the veracity of the connection you make, but I’d recommend adding more information or a citation here.  

      Comment by carolyn.elerding@gmail.com on February 8th, 2015

      “timeless facts”! Really?  

      Comment by carolyn.elerding@gmail.com on February 8th, 2015

      This explication of the “zero-degree of knowledge production” would have been helpful when it was first mentioned.  

      Comment by carolyn.elerding@gmail.com on February 8th, 2015

      I see, and this is where the contrast between compromise and consensus- and majority-based decision-making is explained. When you revise, it would be very helpful to place a version of this at the idea’s first appearance.  

      Comment by carolyn.elerding@gmail.com on February 8th, 2015

      The final sentence has me wondering: do you have any thoughts on defining facticity? Nevermind: you mention them, though very briefly, in the next paragraph.  

  • Male Fantasy and the Apocalyptic Event: Analysing Technomasculinity and Militarized Masculinity in the Dead Space Video Game Series (66 comments)

    • Comment by Nina Huntemann on February 11th, 2017

      Missing C in Chuck Beaver.

      Comment by Nina Huntemann on February 11th, 2017

      This is an interesting observation that fixing technical systems were the key obstacles toward the game’s win state in the first release, only to be supplanted by traditional gun-play sequences in the later releases.

      Comment by Nina Huntemann on February 11th, 2017

      You make claims about this suit not demonstrated in your textual analysis. What is the libertarian ideology apparent in the suit?

      Comment by Nina Huntemann on February 11th, 2017

      You may be trying to separate Brennan from Clarke too much, in order to fit the “spouse” narrative trope. Since dead Brennan is a manifestation of Clarke’s ailing psyche, you could read her as the femininity inside of Clarke. This gendered tension exists in each social being. Clarke is wrestling with the feminine aspects of his identity that value connection, love and care, which is the threat to his masculinity. By making Clarke battle with himself, the game shuts down the possibility for a fluid gender identity.

      Comment by Nina Huntemann on February 11th, 2017

      [instant karma]

      Suggest changing to “swift punishment” to avoid colloquialism.

      Comment by Nina Huntemann on February 11th, 2017

      According to your game design analysis, there are also many more goal-progression objectives overall in each subsequent game (16 – 17 – 44), with the biggest leap between DS2 and DS3. You need to acknowledge (if not discuss in depth) how the market expectations for sequels may influence the heavier reliance on gun-play/social control objectives in D3. This progression is very common in film sequels as well, where the action moves slower in the first film as the narrative world and characters in it are established. By the final film, the creators can take for granted that audiences know the narrative world and its characters, so more time is devoted to action sequences. This well-establish production practice also reflects the blockbuster expectations of higher returns for each subsequent release. I know your are not providing a political economic critique here, but I would encourage you to acknowledge this trend, which I think actually bolsters your claim about militarized masculinity ultimately prevailing as the ideal, as a evident in the narrative, game design AND as a response to market expectations.

      Comment by Nina Huntemann on February 11th, 2017

      I can appreciate your desire to end this piece by offering a response to “So what” however simply pointing to neoliberalism is not an adequate answer. Define your understand of neoliberalism before deploying it in the final paragraph as the socio-politico-economic context from which the meaning of Dead Space can be understood. Your choice of Dead Space and subsequent analysis would be stronger if you made the case why the series’ representation of techno- vs. militarized masculinity is relevant and speaks to the contemporary moment. Do this by framing the work up above, in the introduction.

       

      Comment by Nina Huntemann on February 11th, 2017

      Hello Robin.

      Masculinity manifests in media texts in complex ways, but is often considered as one cohesive representation. Good work teasing out the differences between techno and militarized masculinity in the Dead Space series.

      I’ve made comments below at specific moments in your piece, but overall I have a few suggestions:

      As I mention in my final comment, I encourage you to strengthen the frame of your article upfront, placing the series in the contemporary moment. If neoliberalism is your frame (as you suggest in the conclusion), you need to clearly define what you mean by neoliberalism and then thread your analysis back to that frame throughout the piece. It is too easy with textual analysis (of games, film, tv, etc.) to focus closely on the text and save contextualizing the series for the final paragraphs. Your piece will have greater impact if you can foreground the context, placing the object of your analysis in the center of that context.
      The argument in your article that I think needs a bit more attention is your analysis of the female characters. The links you make to institutional authority (government and religion) are tenuous and not particularly convincing. Can you bolster this analysis with clearer, more concise and compelling moments from the games? The broad stroke narrative summaries you offer are too loosely drawn to convincingly demonstrate the role of the female characters.
      Can you elaborate your game design analysis? It seems a bit short. I think your readers would better understand how techno vs. militarized masculinity is present in the game design if you more explicitly describe the difference between social control objectives vs. technical obstacles. I know, from playing the series that action sequences (gun play, killing zombies) is the key activity of the social control objectives, while tinkering with technology defines the technical obstacles. You could make these difference clearer.

      Comment by Kim Knight on February 14th, 2017

      Earlier you say that the three games were released on major consoles between 2009 and 2013. I suppose it could have been released for PC in 2008 and not appeared for console until 2009, but this currently reads like an inconsistency.

      Comment by Kim Knight on February 14th, 2017

      [highly responsive male action hero]

      This sort of drops out of the analysis. Why is it important?

      Comment by Kim Knight on February 14th, 2017

      [a technically oriented masculinity]

      Given the roots of much technology in the military, this distinction seems a bit tenuous. In fact, later you seem to suggest that technomasculinity becomes part of dominating masculinity. I think you need to tease out the nuances of this distinction a bit more, particularly with the way that militarism, which seems to be a prominent feature of directly dominating masculinity, can be separated from technomasculinity in this context.

      Comment by Kim Knight on February 14th, 2017

      [However, technomasculine men are also represented as lacking key social skills such as leadership, aggression, toughness or sexual prowess, the lack of which are associated with femininity and subordinated masculinities.]

      Does Connell revisit this in the 2005 article? This seems like a fairly outdated conception of the technolomasculine. I can think of pop culture examples where this persists (The Big Bang Theory, for one example), but cultural narratives about silicon valley, brogrammers, and an increasingly technologized military also destablize this conception.

      Comment by Kim Knight on February 14th, 2017

      [Additionally, it is important to consider how power dynamics are represented through narrative and game design practices since these cultural artifacts are games as well as narrative stories]

      It doesn’t seem as though you address this later in any kind of extended way.

      Comment by Kim Knight on February 14th, 2017

      [Dead Space (EA Redwood Shores 2008), Dead Space 2 (Visceral Games 2011), and Dead Space 3 (Visceral Games 2013)]

      As someone who has not played these games, I appreciate these descriptions. I’d like to suggest however, that you streamline them a bit here and bring in some of the more detailed sections during your analysis. As a reader, I struggled to recall your descriptions during your later analytic sections.

      Comment by Kim Knight on February 14th, 2017

      [become fused or complementary]

      Again, I’m not sure they can be separated at all in the context of 2008-2013.

      Comment by Kim Knight on February 14th, 2017

      [Although this displays Clarke’s hacking skills on screen, the essence of hacking, which is largely cognitive and haptic, is missing from the players’ experience.]

      This is an interesting slippage that you identify between player experience and on-screen representation. Do similar slippages not occur in the other types of in-game activities? Why is the practicality of hacking important in your argument?

      Comment by Kim Knight on February 14th, 2017

      [engineering suit’s special abilities]

      Seems like an appropriate place for theories of cyborgs and gender?

      Comment by Kim Knight on February 14th, 2017

      I think also Haraway’s “informatics of domination” would argue for a mutually constitutive relationship between the two kinds of masculinity.

      Comment by Kim Knight on February 14th, 2017

      [affective]

      Are there sources you can bring in about medical care and affect? I’m not sure I see the equivalency. Are military medics considered affective carers?

      Comment by Kim Knight on February 14th, 2017

      I also wonder about any game studies treatments of masculinity and invincibility in these games that might be applicable here?

      Comment by Kim Knight on February 14th, 2017

      [The suit contains masculinity and is masculinity’s container.]

      This is lovely phrasing.

      Comment by Kim Knight on February 14th, 2017

      I concur with this comment.

      Comment by Kim Knight on February 14th, 2017

      [white Western masculinity about black men’s potential for violence and racial miscegenation under colonial and racists systems of social organization]

      This is such an interesting moment, but race is largely absent from the rest of your analysis. Is this dominant masculinity a white masculinity?

      Comment by Kim Knight on February 14th, 2017

      [The ideology of rugged individual masculinity becomes the underlying authority in the absence of institutional rationality and control.]

      This line of argument, about libertarianism, seems out of place. It either needs to be developed more fully and accounted for in your relationship between direct dominance/militarized masculinity and technomasculinity, or consider pursuing this argument another time in another publication.

      Comment by Kim Knight on February 14th, 2017

      I can’t figure out how to edit my comments. So I’ll clarify that it should be accounted for in your initial theorizing back at the beginning.

      Comment by Kim Knight on February 14th, 2017

      Is it part of control of the social order or control of nature / machines? And if it doesn’t fit this dichotomy, then how does what does it do to that?

      Comment by Kim Knight on February 14th, 2017

      [They connive while Clarke’s motives are presented as pure. Both women reveal their betrayal and are killed in short order. The instant karma drives home the point.]

      What is the effect of this on the masculine dichotomy / hierarchy you have established?

      Comment by Kim Knight on February 14th, 2017

      [In the second and third games of the series, the majority of objectives are game-progression objectives, and the majority of those objectives are not based upon establishing technological control.]

      To what extent does this connect back to your earlier comments about xenophobia and racial purity?

      Comment by Kim Knight on February 14th, 2017

      [The double bind that acknowledges a divergence between aggressive, macho masculinity and the rational, science-oriented masculinity is removed.]

      Is this something that is happening in the wider culture? If so, is 2008 the beginning of this shift? Or can we connect to heroes like John McClain and other crafty, problem-solving heroes as vanguards of something that is more firmly articulated here?

      Comment by Kim Knight on February 14th, 2017

      [The series does ultimately subsume technomasculinity into the action hero archetype, but it doesn’t do it at the expense of technomasculinity.]

      As a reader, whose primary filed is not game studies, I also wonder about scholarship on other videogames and this relationship between types of masculinities? I did a few searches of databases, and the keywords “military, technology, masculinity, “video games” brings up 1000s of results. How is your reading of this series in conversation with this scholarship?

      Comment by Kim Knight on February 14th, 2017

      [women]

      Can you place this in the context of other games and/or media? It seems you are suggesting that the rise of the technomasculine parallels a decline in feminine authority? Perhaps just some rewording is needed here.

      Comment by Kim Knight on February 14th, 2017

      Yes, I agree with this.

      Comment by Kim Knight on February 14th, 2017

      You’ll want to be sure that the editors correc thte typo in “apocalyptic” in the article title.

      I enjoyed learning about this game series and should note that I am approaching this review from my position as a humanities, media studies scholar. So some of the theoretical staples of our disciplines may differ.

      I think you do a nice job describing the games and there are moments where your prose borders on poetry. For me, the largest obstacle with the article is in the distinction drawn between militarized and technologized masculinity. It seems that by 2008, it is very difficult to productively separate the two. If the Clarke character is indeed this effeminate, intellecualized masculine figure that you associate with Conwell’s technological masculinity, that needs to be more fully described for the reader.

      The sections on rugged individualism could use some attention to articulate the role of this in militarized or technologized masculinity. Or is it a third thing?

      And I agree with the other reviewer’s comments about neoliberalism at the end. Not only would it help to introduce it earlier, but since the game universe deals with corporations and corrupt churches, how do the logics of neoliberalism shape the game and the masculinities under discussion?

      Comment by Sky Croeser on February 16th, 2017

      I think “apocolyptic” should be “apocalyptic”.

      Comment by Carina Assunção on February 19th, 2017

      i think there could be a mention of hegemonic masculinities (they vary according to context)

      Comment by Carina Assunção on February 19th, 2017

      yes, I feel like the author is referring to geek masculinity instead.

      Comment by Carina Assunção on February 19th, 2017

      Just the other day I read Dualisms hierarchies and gender in engineering by Wendy Faulkner and I think this paragraph (I haven’t read the whole paper) could benefit from diving a little bit deeper into engineering masculities. Because there’s a whole range of engineers and a whole range of masculities within each one, it seems to me.

      Comment by Carina Assunção on February 19th, 2017

      Uhm, again, I need to refer back to Faulkner and her work with engineers, specifically, sofware engineers, where social skills are referred to as very difficult to deal with by men.

      Comment by Carina Assunção on February 19th, 2017

       

      I agree, and I’ve been noticing until this paragraph the constant mention to characters’ race though it doesn’t seem to link to the overall analysis (focused on masculinity).

      Comment by Carina Assunção on February 19th, 2017

      [it was covered it up ]

      typo

      Comment by Carina Assunção on February 19th, 2017

      I think this is a good article, I also enjoyed learning about these games though I had studied them previously, from a game design perspective.

      I think you give really good introductions to the games, but, after that, I think you go a bit too much into detail on the games’ narratives without linking them properly to the analysis at hand – masculinities.

      As I mentioned below, reading Faulkner would undoubtedly enrich your analysis. Besides, I think the article is lacking in references throughout. Good luck!

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 20th, 2017

      I agree with both reviewers that the  concept of hegemonic masculinity is historically variable — it makes sense that there have been shifts within categories (e.g. the rise of geek masculinity). Would be helpful to reference some of the more recent work on masculinity (see Andrea Braithwaite’s work).

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 20th, 2017

      I’m not clear on the distinction between militarized masculinity and technomasculinity, especially since there’s so much overlap in those categories, as Joystick Soldiers demonstrates.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 20th, 2017

      Also, it might be useful to think about a field of masculinities — or masculinities as sets of relationships — rather than a field made up of two poles.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 20th, 2017

      Kim’s comments above mirror my main comment for revision: the paper needs a clearer organizational framework and thesis. That will allow you to better address some of the problems with transitions. For example, in the preceding paragraph, you say: “One key question that will be addressed in the analysis is what relationships exist between the two forms of masculinity in the Dead Space series?” That should appear earlier in the paper (if that is indeed the key question guiding your analysis), but you should also push it a bit further: why is this a key question and what does answering it allow us to know that we didn’t know before?

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 20th, 2017

      Subheading is misleading. What follows is a plot summary. It would be good, as Kim points out below, to better integrate that into your broader analysis.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 20th, 2017

      Really tackling and unpacking what you mean by hegemonic masculinity at the start of this contribution would help you avoid some of the issues reviewers raise in their comments. I think there’s a way to index how ideals associated with engineering function in popular culture without having to dive in too far into the differences among forms of engineering (some of which are more feminized than others).

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 20th, 2017

      Control over the world (natural and technological) seems a constant characteristic of masculinities. Can you say something about what makes technological control different in the world of the game?

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 20th, 2017

      As Kim points out above, this is an intriguing and original insight — the slippage between player experience and on-screen representation.Maybe there’s a way to knit insights like this into the fabric of your argument?

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 20th, 2017

      It is lovely phrasing, but I’d like to see it unpacked.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 20th, 2017

      This might be effectively tied into a framework of geek masculinity — I think about the internet attack on Scientology (favored target of Reddit, etc.).

      Comment by Jeremiah Favara on February 20th, 2017

      The concept of militarized masculinity, given its importance in your analysis, could be more clearly conceptualized. Meanings of masculinity in the military differ greatly based on associations with combat and technology. For example, in the Air Force dominance might most be associated with piloting, an occupation highly linked to technological mastery whereas in the Marine Corps, dominance might be most associated with infantry troops and ideas of physical strength and dominance. Elaborating on the concept of militarized masculinity and linking it to particular characteristics could be helpful.

      Comment by Jeremiah Favara on February 20th, 2017

      Further discussion of masculinities could be useful here. Work on gender capital by Tristan Bridges could help clarify how technology acts a resource for performing masculinity in some settings but can also hinder performances of masculinity in other settings. Drawing on scholarship that situates the concept of hegemonic masculinity within shifting social contexts could add some nuance to links between masculinity and technology.

      Comment by Jeremiah Favara on February 20th, 2017

      Ramon Hinojosa has an article titled “Doing Hegemony: Military, Men, and Constructing a Military Masculinity” that could be helpful for elaborating ideas of militarized masculinities.

      Comment by Jeremiah Favara on February 20th, 2017

      I’m not sure about the two concepts of technomasculinity and militarized masculinity. Technological mastery has long been utilized in constructions of militarized masculinity and ideas about the use of technological might as expression of militarized dominance. Expanding on and clarifying relationships between technology and multiple expressions of masculinities could be helpful.

      Comment by Jeremiah Favara on February 20th, 2017

      The description of the games is thorough and helpful to set the scene for someone like myself, who has not played the games. Integrating this rich description with your analysis might be helpful.

      Comment by Jeremiah Favara on February 20th, 2017

      As noted by other reviewers, the two expressions of masculinity do not necessarily seem distinct. Further developing your conceptualization of masculinities and relationships to technologies could be helpful.

      Comment by Jeremiah Favara on February 20th, 2017

      I agree with Carol’s and Kim’s comments that this link between representation and player experience is very interesting. It might be helpful to address the relationship between play and representation in framing your analysis.

      Comment by Jeremiah Favara on February 20th, 2017

      Your discussion of the suit and its function in relationship to masculinity is interesting. I wonder if there is scholarship on other men and suits in popular culture – I’m thinking Iron Man – that could help elaborate on links between technology, masculinity, and bodies.

      Comment by Jeremiah Favara on February 20th, 2017

      I agree with Kim’s comments about libertarianism and individuals needed more framing. It made me think of work on frontier masculinities by Anihita and Mix that might be helpful in unpacking some of this.

      Comment by Jeremiah Favara on February 20th, 2017

      It might be interesting to explore how heterosexuality contributes to representations of masculinity in these games.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 22nd, 2017

      Some very strong misogyny in this narrative.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 22nd, 2017

      There is a lot of strong, provocative material in this analysis. I agree with Nina’s final comment — that you need to work on the framing of the argument at the beginning, so that the analysis that unfolds makes sense and matters to your readers. I wonder, too, if the dualistic framework makes sense. It might be more to the point to talk about shifts in conceptualizations of masculinities in the Dead Space video game series and link these to the historical context in which these games are produced and consumed. You begin to do that at the very end. It would be good, too, to reference some of the research on masculinities — see Keith’s new book: http://us2.campaign-archive1.com/?u=a816c9e6734a3f670a31c10b3&id=8b47c9e271&e=95f1504546. There’s so much misogyny embedded in these texts as well — you might address that more directly (choosing Le Guin as the name of one of the female characters — a reference to one of SF’s most important female authors — is just one example).

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 22nd, 2017

      I’m not clear on how this graph enhances your analysis.

      Comment by Radhika Gajjala on February 24th, 2017

      adding to Carol’s – when you point to the “reestablishment of technological control” in the next para – perhaps ground the nature of tech control you are talking about. And are we also talking about “technology” as it is represented, narrated within the game. There is a sort of “remediation” of non digital tech within this tech space and associated with technomasculinity – what is happening here?

      Comment by Radhika Gajjala on February 24th, 2017

      from this para on to the next two or three you are talking about the common  perception regarding technology and gender. I have found Janet Abbate’s work on “Recoding Gender” useful in explaining this points as well.

  • The Voice on the Line: A Reflection on Creating the Feminist Phone Intervention (64 comments)

    • Comment by lori.dehertogh@email.wsu.edu on September 25th, 2014

      It might be helpful for readers to see a brief description of what the Feminist Phone Intervention project is. You get to that pretty quickly once the article begins, but I think clarifying this in the abstract would invite readers to move further into your analysis and let them know what they’re getting into. 

      Comment by lori.dehertogh@email.wsu.edu on September 25th, 2014

      Can we assume that it’s exclusively men who engage in this type of bullying?

      Comment by lori.dehertogh@email.wsu.edu on September 25th, 2014

      Might be cool to provide a link to her work at some point so readers unfamiliar with her work (or who want to learn more) have a clickable resource.  

      Comment by lori.dehertogh@email.wsu.edu on September 25th, 2014

      Great point! 

      Comment by lori.dehertogh@email.wsu.edu on September 25th, 2014

      I like the energy of this paragraph; I can tell you’re into your project and aren’t taking on the role of the dispassionate, “objective” researcher.  

      Comment by lori.dehertogh@email.wsu.edu on September 25th, 2014

      Will the uninitiated reader know what you mean by this phrase? 

      Comment by lori.dehertogh@email.wsu.edu on September 25th, 2014

      This transition feels “bumpy” to me.  

      Comment by lori.dehertogh@email.wsu.edu on September 25th, 2014

      Digging the term “cyber-comradeship.”  

      Comment by lori.dehertogh@email.wsu.edu on September 25th, 2014

      I like that you use “I think, “me,” “my thoughts,” etc. throughout; it helps me connect with you as a reader and pulls in *your* experiences and passions. That said, I would be careful not to overuse the first person as it can also make readers feel like they aren’t part of these issues…like they are just passively reading a story about you and not also about their own experiences/complexities. Does that make sense? If not, let me know and I can say more. 🙂 

      Comment by lori.dehertogh@email.wsu.edu on September 25th, 2014

      This section of the article feels almost like a conclusion to me (or like it’s leading up to a conclusion); I wonder if you should move it toward the end? Just a thought….  

      Comment by lori.dehertogh@email.wsu.edu on September 25th, 2014

      This section feels to me like there’s too much emphasis on the project’s future, without an analysis of what these future avenues might mean in terms of the project, you and your colleague’s role within it, reshaping civic conversations about feminist activism, etc. It might help to retool this section a bit so that you create connections between where you’re hoping to go with this project (particularly within an international context) and what the potential implications of this process might be. 

      Comment by lori.dehertogh@email.wsu.edu on September 25th, 2014

      I’m not following you here… 

      Comment by lori.dehertogh@email.wsu.edu on September 25th, 2014

      The connection here between your project and a “public social commons” feels loose or desultory to me; I wonder if there’s a more compelling way to end your piece? I felt so much passion and strength in the earlier sections;now it feels like it’s fading…

      Comment by lori.dehertogh@email.wsu.edu on September 25th, 2014

      This is a bold, timely, and relevant piece. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to read your work. If you have questions or want to follow-up on my comments, please email me at lori.dehertogh@email.wsu.edu 

      Comment by lori.dehertogh@email.wsu.edu on September 25th, 2014

      Oppss…let me clarify. (I highlighted the phrase, but the program makes a comment on the entire paragraph) The phrase is “agit-prop.”  

      Comment by Carol Stabile on October 12th, 2014

      So true. I recently advised a senior administrator that there was a toxic environment in a particular administrative unit: he asked me to give him the names of people who had said that. What part of toxic or harassing don’t these people understand and what dumb responses to feminist concerns?

      Comment by Carol Stabile on October 12th, 2014

      I was so impressed with the imagination and chutzpah behind the Feminist Phone Intervention and I’m so glad to read your account about it.

      I have two sets of comments. The first is stylistic and the second is a more theoretical question about the potential and the limits of anonymity as a mode of intervention.

      Regarding style, at the level of paragraphs, this is lively and engaging. I think it would be helpful to work on the framework for the project a bit more, since the organization isn’t as polished as it could be. For example, it might be better to begin with the broader context in which the Feminist Phone Intervention took place, with the Rodgers’ suicide-mass shooting and the resurgence of MRA activity on the internet (not to mention real experiences of sexual violence).  I’d also reconsider the subheadings, so that the organization of the piece flows more clearly (I think that’ll also help with transitions among and between paragraphs).

      The section on anonymity might work better by way of a conclusion, after you’ve laid out the project itself, the media’s framing of the project (and I think it’s worth emphasizing that the media is not a friend to anarcha-feminists like yourself).

      In the main, I think another round of revising could turn this into a real gem of a contribution. And if you had more visual examples, that would strengthen it as well.

      As for the more theoretical elements of this, I guess I’d like to think about anonymity alongside non-anonymity, as well. Not every intervention can — or should be — anonymous and I’d like to also figure out strategies that allow women and queer people in particular to be able to say no and not risk a violent or aggressive response. On one hand, I understand the need for anonymity — the amount of interpersonal and sexual violence we see on college campuses in particular is only now beginning to receive the publicity it needs. On the other hand, and as someone who advises students doing brave and important public research, I’m also concerned about how we support feminist public intellectuals in an era of social media that makes them particularly vulnerable to attack. 

      But I think that this is probably part of a broader conversation — not something necessarily that you need to take on. It would be good, though, to point in the direction of anonymity’s limitations.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on October 12th, 2014

      Thanks, Lori — I was going to point to this passage as an example of what I said in my longer comment about working on some of the transitions. 

      Comment by brittneycooper on October 12th, 2014

      This feels particularly salient after the recent killing of Mary Spears in Detroit after she refused to give a random guy her phone number. He shot her, and shot at several of her family members.  

      Comment by brittneycooper on October 12th, 2014

      Yes, I would agree that more background would be useful here. More information on the Elliot Rodger shooting, and perhaps a few quotes about his sense of entitlement to women’s bodies. Definitely something about the recent case of Mary Spears. And perhaps some stats on stalking. 

      Comment by brittneycooper on October 12th, 2014

       I think the aggressive bullying is fairly characteristic of men or masculine identified/performing people. Not a lot of reportage about feminine performing people being sexually aggressive to the point of violence.  

      Comment by brittneycooper on October 12th, 2014

       Yes, a few citations of bell hooks piece, particularly the ones you used would be helpful here.

      Comment by brittneycooper on October 12th, 2014

      I like the reminder that “bell hooks” is a pseudonym as a defense for anonymity.More explication of the last quote “authorship makes something work” would be really helpful. The meaning gets lost for me here.  

      Comment by brittneycooper on October 12th, 2014

      It seems to me that you are asserting anonymity as a kind of hack, alongside the hack of the feminist phone intervention. So telling us what kinds of problems anonymity solves and what it makes possible would be useful here.  

      Comment by brittneycooper on October 12th, 2014

      You ask big questions here in the middle. You ask them rhetorically but for this audience I think they require at least a gesture towards an answer. 

      Comment by brittneycooper on October 12th, 2014

      this is definitely a good place to say that this piece points to a problem among many groups of women, and that it does not rely on a black/white binary for its salience. Rather it seems to offer some possibility for thinking about solidarity in feminism across race and culture, thereby acting as a hack on the binary. 

      Comment by brittneycooper on October 12th, 2014

      This paragraph and para 36 seem like they belong at the beginning as background for how you came to build this kind of project. 

      Comment by brittneycooper on October 12th, 2014

       I really like the emphasis on the project moving forward spatially and temporally. 

      Comment by keithfeldman on October 17th, 2014

      Great paragraph! Sets up the argument really well… 

      Comment by keithfeldman on October 17th, 2014

      I also appreciate the reminder that “bell hooks” is a pseudonym, not the author’s given name. But there’s a difference between pseudonymity and anonymity, right? especially as hooks is herself–as hooks–an individual and individuated figure. Hooks qua hooks is framed through the discourse of celebrity, with all the problematics that accrue therein (see, for instance, the limiting frame of a black feminist debate between hooks and beyonce) –a sign, perhaps, of the tensions that your essay begins to elucidate about the individual and the collective, or with allyship/comradeship?    

      Comment by keithfeldman on October 17th, 2014

      The material from Morales is so powerful. It’s a bit less clear how it ties into a cyber-comradeship enacted and sustained through something like the bell hooks line. A few sentences that do that connective work would go a long way! 

      Comment by keithfeldman on October 17th, 2014

      This is a remarkable moment! The transnational and location-specific uptake of the project is amazing–you might want to flag its circulation/translation early on. 

      Comment by keithfeldman on October 17th, 2014

      Yes, let me echo Brittney here. I’d be curious to hear a bit more of the debate about the politics of translation (into Hebrew, yes) and also the presumptive analogy between Black feminism and Mizrahi feminism.    

      Comment by keithfeldman on October 17th, 2014

      Could you provide a quote from the comments linking the bell-bot and the wheat paste posters? 

      Comment by mrhee on October 17th, 2014

      could you be a little more specific. i like dear, i use it all the time too! but i wonder if you can be a little more specific abt the collaborator, a fellow feminist, artist, technologist etc? may shed light on feminist collaboration 

      Comment by mrhee on October 17th, 2014

      the description of the phone line is just so brilliant! humorous, powerful, a manifesto!  

      Comment by mrhee on October 17th, 2014

      I really love this line. Tech to protect. I wonder if it could make for a great title of the piece as well, only because we have to ask contributors to have shorter titles (more info forthcoming!)  

      Comment by mrhee on October 17th, 2014

      may need a note to describe what is the Elliot Rodgers, why this case? etc Can be footnote or in text.  

      Comment by mrhee on October 17th, 2014

      Just wonderful! It is absolutely thrilling to read about the calls and the coverage of such an important feminist intervention.   I think it might be good to have a paragraph break after “France,” and “But how did…”  

      Comment by mrhee on October 17th, 2014

      you mention the text in the prior paragraph, might be good to denote that more information abt the text bell bot would be forthcoming in the prior paragraph to help transition and any questions that may arise for the reader.it may be productive to elaborate a bit more on the politics of temporality and technology. what is possible via tech/and the questions of feminist time.  

      Comment by mrhee on October 17th, 2014

      I really appreciate the personal reflection, but it would be good to be a bit more clear about timeline within the essay. This may mean simply placing a header such as “the early days” etc. to denote the timeline of your reflections.The comments abt the fake number seems to be a separate thought, would suggest to break into two paragraphs and elaborate a bit more on these critiques of the line.  

      Comment by mrhee on October 17th, 2014

      may need to denote bell hooks grandmother, as “feminist grandmother” political etc…Is there a link to the kathleen hanna w/riot grrl? great to include hyperlinks or notes for more info 

      Comment by mrhee on October 17th, 2014

      Very powerful paragraph  

      Comment by mrhee on October 17th, 2014

      can you bring a bit more clarity about the documentary images and Strummer around bonfires, ie when they reimisce is it images of him sitting, standing around the bonfire? would be good to bring more description here  

      Comment by mrhee on October 17th, 2014

      might not need this line. feels a bit redundant  

      Comment by mrhee on October 17th, 2014

      May want to denote, in [another] documentary about musician to make transitions from previous pt.  

      Comment by mrhee on October 17th, 2014

      <p>It also reflects what you write about community building, not only anonymity. how her voice as a backup also is in a supportive and collaborative role.  ie it’s because she was singing with others, perhaps brings the pleasure, or the “hack” </p><p>relates to the hacker collective anonymous and their collectivity in anonymity </p> 

      Comment by mrhee on October 17th, 2014

      The issue of Jewish/Latina mixed identity seems really important to further elaborate upon, especially in the questions of hacking “the black/white binary” Given that bell hooks is a Black feminist, how does the feminist phone intervention speak to the interventions of solidarity and blurring the black/white binary within feminist tech activism?I appreciate the narrative and personal reflective style of the piece but this paragraph along with others can be broken up to elaborate further on particular points.The email from a “persistent reader” can be a separate paragraph, and further reflection on race and gender would be really vital to tease out here. How might sexism intersect with racism. How is it different that a woman of color created the line, and bell hooks is speaking back via the project?  

      Comment by mrhee on October 17th, 2014

      This paragraph sets up your disc of how the media and mainstream depict the “rejection hotline” I would rec that you place the writing on this aspect within this paragraph, to help organization of the essay, and would include space for more elaboration.  

      Comment by mrhee on October 17th, 2014

       This line is a bit confusing: “But I do think it is a strength to be able to address people outside of committed feminist activists.” Do you mean speaking and working with larger society rather than smaller insular feminist circles? Suggest to take more time to clarify. for the idea to move into reality, is this the virality of the project? the widespread publication? how might this differ from “feminist activism” or not? I also agree with Brittney’s comment about an answer to these larger questions, I also feel they seem binary that feminist strategies can and needs to do both radical feminist work that does influence society as well as larger projects that affect the mainstream as well.   

      Comment by mrhee on October 17th, 2014

      can you discuss a bit more abt the need for a “tool” which is technology, ‘techne”how might this support the need for feminist technologies?why do we have to justify safety? a larger question and response to the questions the line has been getting  

      Comment by mrhee on October 17th, 2014

      we “tried”watch tense throughout I also agree with Keith on the politics of transnationalism along with race, that is really important here. How the line is hacking binaries 

      Comment by mrhee on October 17th, 2014

       reading through, i feel this section may need an intro paragraph that outline the stakes that happen, ie transnationalism, language, dialects, how might it hack the binary of race, borders, languages etc

      Comment by mrhee on October 17th, 2014

      just awesome! what are the opinions abt hooks vs mizrahi? may need one sentence to clarify  

      Comment by mrhee on October 17th, 2014

      this is really awesome and important. i think having a bit more abt your collaborator earlier on seems important. // placing this paragraph here works with this issue of dialect of computer code and access. may want to be a bit more pointed abt this connection.  

      Comment by mrhee on October 17th, 2014

      perhaps a transition or connection, as a result of the open source coding…  

      Comment by mrhee on October 17th, 2014

      break up paragraph after “they’d just meant” with “We’ve gotten requests..”  

      Comment by mrhee on October 17th, 2014

       Throughout piece, really suggest to go through and work on organization. avoid repetitions of ideas/events and organize to help the reader follow through. also may need to reiterate certain main points articulated at the beginning of the essay, the collectivity/hacking 

      Comment by mrhee on October 17th, 2014

      i like this anecdote abt london and meeting women there who knew about the line. I would love to see this as a separate pargagraph and fleshed out more. how did the encounter happen, how did you feel when they knew abt the line but didn’t know it was made by you? how does this make the feminist making more collective in different ways?  

      Comment by mrhee on October 17th, 2014

      This paragraph is wonderful, esp the connections to your work as a muralist of community and how the feminist phone intervention is a similar project. The topic sentence should be revised to make this transition/connection. also great to bring disc of tech. what does tech make possible that paint cannot and vice versa? 

      Comment by mrhee on October 17th, 2014

      I like this paragraph abt Yoko Ono but would like to see more development of this idea of “hack” or “cut” as a feminist act. It seems a bit out of place to bring her in without more context of her work and your hopes for the feminist phone intervention.  

      Comment by mrhee on October 17th, 2014

      also agree with Brittney on this section seems more like an introduction to your personal impetus. It may be productive to rethink organization, if this section came at the paragraph on bonfires and anonymity, and collectivity, may shed more light on  your point on feminist interventions 

      Comment by mrhee on October 17th, 2014

      this paragraph is very moving but feels it can come at the section where you discuss public space. as a final paragraph, it feels dissatisfying to the rich and complex discussion your brought forth abt race adn feminist praxis. it is not to say these ideas about pubnlic space/commons are less important, but i feel the other points you raised have very high stakes for how we are rethinking feminist in our digital futures. This last description also seems less radical than your purposes that you explain earlier on in the essay, about the realities of violence against women’s bodies, Elliot Rogers, etc. is there a difference between the hopes & the inspiration of the project? Could you tell us a bit more abt what you hope and imagine in a more tangible way? I would suggest going into a more narrative description, ie can you paint us a portrait of a feminist in Tunisia? It may help the narrative flow and show us versus telling us. 

      Comment by mrhee on October 17th, 2014

      this is a rich, compelling, and insightful piece on feminist interventions in our digital age. i appreciate the insightful and complex reflections on the feminist phone project and hearing about the development from its creator. throughout, there are insightful observations and questions that are also provocative and powerful! i placed comments throughout the essay. overall, the essay was a pleasure to read and will be a powerful inclusion to the issue. some suggestions to strengthen the essay: the issue of hack and race is incredibly important to the feminist politics of anonymity & collectivity, would love to see this pulled through the various vinettes and paragraphs. more development of these questions would be important in thinking abt feminist tech interventions. organization of the essay would be helpful to avoid repeititions of ideas or events. each development/thought is very compelling, but would make essay more compelling to play a bit more with the storytelling, at times there is much telling rather than showing, which can be difficult to follow within a first person piece. would love to see a bit more via description & imagination, more on this in the last paragraph. also can think about virtual ways of storytelling or notes section for further elaboration. overall, gorgeous moving and powerful piece in tribute to such a moving powerful feminist tool like the “bell hooks” line. 

  • Dismantling ‘You get what you deserve’: Toward a feminist sociology of revenge porn (62 comments)

    • Comment by Mariana Grohowski on September 30th, 2016

      A fascinating research study that yielded both sound, powerful, findings and this contributive article.

      It was a pleasure to read. The implications of your research and others are profound.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on October 1st, 2016

      Can you provide citations for a feminist violence against women theoretical framework? This would be helpful for Ada‘s interdisciplinary audience.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on October 1st, 2016

      You might take a look at Amy Hasinoff’s book on sexting as well, which makes a similar claim in the US context.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on October 1st, 2016

      Maybe worth a mention of the recent banning of Milo Yiannopoulos from Twitter (very late in coming).

      Comment by Carol Stabile on October 1st, 2016

      This is a sharp analysis and I think Ada‘s readers will appreciate the framework you lay out. In addition to my comments below, I have a few for tightening up the organization of the paper. You lay out three sections for the paper in your intro:

      1. Situating revenge porn within the framework of violence against women — and I think it would be helpful to set this up in terms of a continuum of violent acts, ranging from symbolic expressions of masculine domination to violent physical expressions

      2. examining targeted concepts associated with feminist studies of the internet

      3. your analysis of focus group data.

      I think it would be helpful to integrate the first 2 points, perhaps by using feminist studies of the internet to make the point about understanding revenge porn within the framework of violence against women (e.g. seeing the internet as a broadly hostile environment for women, people of color, and/or LGBTQ people).

       

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      Comment by Carol Stabile on October 1st, 2016

      Can you work on this transition? There’s a lot going on in the first sentence of this paragraph and it would be useful to unpack it and also to provide a transition from the previous section, which situates revenge porn within the context of violence against women, as well as a set up for your next section on methods.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on October 1st, 2016

      Worth saying more about this — specifically, how these pervasive attitudes can shame women into silence. Also, how do you account for the first two failed focus group attempts?

      Comment by rylee001 on October 1st, 2016

      Does Ada have a house style for hyphen vs no hyphen? “Cyber-sexual” or “cybersexual” would likely be easier to read.

      Comment by rylee001 on October 1st, 2016

      Consider rephrasing the last as “…a standpoint from which we verify…” or else “…from which we testify to…” for added heft. We could also use “recognize,” although that shifts the meaning away from Hekman’s text somewhat.

      Comment by rylee001 on October 1st, 2016

      A sentence or so linking this specific form of gendered violence to a larger culture of online violence against women, people of color, and those not considered “normal” might strengthen your point here. Lisa Nakamura’s work on race in cyberspace, or Whitney Phillips’ work on trolls, might be helpful.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on October 2nd, 2016

      What do you make of the gender-identification breakdown of people who responded to your ad?

      Comment by Carol Stabile on October 2nd, 2016

      It would be helpful to compare your introductory paragraph with this paragraph as a way of thinking about the overall structure of the paper. You begin with the notion of a feminist sociology of revenge porn and you end with it, but you never really define the concept or thread it through the paper. What makes this specifically a feminist sociology? How do the broad sections of the paper — which I understand as: 1. defining revenge porn and situating it within the framework of sexual violence; 2. using the focus studies to explore students’ attitudes toward revenge porn; 3. concluding by re-asserting that revenge porn isn’t women’s fault — add up to a feminist sociology? Again, revenge porn I would argue exists on the continuum of sexually violent acts and it also in individual cases combines with other sexually violent acts (e.g. the use of SnapChat, Facebook, and other social media along with embodied forms of stalking and physical abuse).

      Comment by Adrienne Shaw on October 2nd, 2016

      [we want to examine how people can understand revenge porn to be both a gendered crime and also a crime that women bring on themselves.]

      Purely based on some recent grading experiences, I worry this phrase could too easily be taken out of context to suggest you are arguing that we should view revenge porn as “a crime that women bring on themselves.” I wonder if there is a way to rephrase this so that is not the takeaway. Making your argument is more explicitly stated here, at the start of this paragraph, would help avoid any ambiguity.

      Comment by Kathleen Kollman on October 4th, 2016

      We need more research, context,

      Comment by Kathleen Kollman on October 4th, 2016

      and clarification of the Fappening.

       

      Comment by Kathleen Kollman on October 4th, 2016

      The paper references “feminist sociology” and “feminist theory” several times, but never really provides content or explanation for such specific ideology within the text.

      Comment by Kathleen Kollman on October 4th, 2016

      The opening page needs more detail concerning revenge porn. How has its visibility increased? Also, the paper should specifically define revenge porn. When did this term first appear?

      Comment by Kathleen Kollman on October 4th, 2016

      I would like to see just a little bit more contextualization of these researchers’ feminist POV and sociological POV (epistomology and rationale for methodology and methods).

      Comment by Kathleen Kollman on October 4th, 2016

      The paper’s paragraph on Reddit could have had much more detail, there’s a lot of information and specific examples that could be discussed regarding online misogyny. Other sites such as 4chan too could be discussed.

      Comment by Kathleen Kollman on October 4th, 2016

      It could be useful to check what are the channels of distribution of such videos. It would reinforce the argument on the absent neutrality of cyberspaces.

      Comment by Kathleen Kollman on October 4th, 2016

      Did they find any issue with the small size of the second focus group? What made them decide on focus groups rather than individual interviews? Was there anything noticed about how female students behaved with male students in the room and vice versa?

      Comment by Kathleen Kollman on October 4th, 2016

      It is a bit risky to put in the same category hackers and ex-partners. The first in many cases are not only male, while they do sell their services for the right price. Hence there could be confusion that should be clarified. The motives are important in this case.

      Comment by Kathleen Kollman on October 4th, 2016

      This implies that this is the statistical reality of the phenomenon, but that has not yet been established in the context of the piece/research.

      Comment by Kathleen Kollman on October 4th, 2016

      Make sure this part of the sentence isn’t a typo, as it reads awkwardly and may have a repeated word.

      Comment by Kathleen Kollman on October 4th, 2016

      Figure 3? Only two figures are represented in the article. A larger discussion of the graffiti might be beneficial in relation to the aims of the project.

      Comment by Kathleen Kollman on October 4th, 2016

      This might need to be a new paragraph.

      Comment by Kathleen Kollman on October 4th, 2016

      Elsewhere you put a comma between the participants’ names and their age.

      Comment by Kathleen Kollman on October 4th, 2016

      A call for education initiatives implies a recognition that revenge porn is a social issue.

      Comment by Kathleen Kollman on October 4th, 2016

      This is a very good explanatory paragraph about the participants and helps the reader understand the positions quoted above.

      Comment by Kathleen Kollman on October 4th, 2016

      Τhis comment has not been adequately clarified in the article above. While exists as an underlying notion, I feel that it it puts the blame on the interviewees for their lack of perspective. Perhaps an improvement in phrasing would clarify that confusion here.

      Comment by Kathleen Kollman on October 4th, 2016

      I do like the conclusions this paper draws. However, it might be useful to mention how future studies like this might build upon work about revenge porn, especially since focus groups are, by design, so small.

      Comment by Kathleen Kollman on October 4th, 2016

      I like the last two paragraphs and how they summarize some things that the focus group did or did not realize through their examination.

      Comment by Radhika Gajjala on October 4th, 2016

      Perhaps say something more about the form of sexting as a material practice – as it is increasingly  used as a mode of interpersonal communication and relationship management ?

      Comment by Roopika Risam on October 4th, 2016

      I enjoyed this piece and found the study undertaken to be absolutely fascinating. I concur with Carol’s comment on the whole piece, which suggests that some acknowledgment of intersectionality would be useful. I’m particularly interested to know about the potential impact of race and sexuality in the sample.

      When I reached the end of the essay, I found myself still wanting to know what the feminist sociology of revenge porn is – what’s are the theoretical stakes, what are the implications for studying these issues? While this is a very strong description of the study, the theory of revenge porn remains wanting. Ideally, if you could identify the key ideas of a feminist sociology of revenge porn and thread them throughout the essay, so we can see them situated in the article as a whole, this will be much stronger!

      Comment by Carol Stabile on October 6th, 2016

      The authors do define revenge porn in paragraph 3, but I think Kathleen is asking them to provide more of a context for it. I agree.

      Comment by marywaters on October 6th, 2016

      We will adopt the housestyle or otherwise go with “cybersexual” here and throughout. Thank you!

      Comment by marywaters on October 6th, 2016

      We will provide some citations, both popular and academic, to revenge porn research and high profile revenge porn cases, including the Fappening. Would it be a good idea to include an image here to convey the stakes of a case like the Fappening?

      We will be more explicit with why/how feminist sociology and theory work in the text. I think a sentence between the last two sentences in this paragraph would work to do this.

       

      Comment by marywaters on October 6th, 2016

      I think adding more examples and context, including when the term emerged, in the first three paragraphs should help define the range of what revenge porn can be.

      Comment by marywaters on October 6th, 2016

      We will clarify  wording, add citations, and a bit more about the feminist content, as suggested. Thanks!

      Comment by marywaters on October 6th, 2016

      Thank you for this reference. I heard her research discussed on NPR earlier this year!

      Comment by marywaters on October 6th, 2016

      Thank you for these references. We will take a quick look at them and include them here.

      Comment by marywaters on October 6th, 2016

      I agree that his banning is a good example of Twitter higher-ups’ clear unwillingness to take action. I will try to work it in here.

      Comment by marywaters on October 6th, 2016

      We can add more examples from Megarry’s and Massanari’s articles here, as well as some from Nakamura’s and Phillips’ pieces (as suggested by another reviewer) here to demonstrate the magnitude of online misogyny documented.

      Comment by marywaters on October 6th, 2016

      Forgive me, I don’t think I understand your suggestion. Do you mean the types of websites that take in revenge porn videos and images? Are do you mean the smart phone technologies that enable perpetrators to quick distribute/upload revenge porn?

      Comment by marywaters on October 6th, 2016

      Thanks for this suggestion. We will revise this paragraph with an eye to its transition.

      Comment by marywaters on October 6th, 2016

      We have a bit more we can add about the flyer and the failed focus groups.  We had to change the name of the discussion each time to something broad rather than something specific like “revenge porn focus group” and also alter the invitation method before we finally had participants.

      Comment by marywaters on October 6th, 2016

      Actually, we tried to have gender-specific focus groups: one for students who identified as female and one for those who identified as male and one that was gender-neutral. No one showed for the gender-specific sessions. But they came for the sessions that didn’t specify a specific gender.

      Comment by marywaters on October 6th, 2016

      We noticed that in each session, one or two males spoke more than anyone else during the discussion. We noted that, overall, men spoke more than women, too. I wish we had had a discussion with just women present. However, I don’t know what might have changed had we had a different mix of data.

      Comment by marywaters on October 6th, 2016

      Thanks for this excellent insight! We will focus away from the hackers and look at the outcomes and motives. We thought it was important to note that the participants saw revenge porn as a range of actions, from the Fappening to the smaller scale distribution of private videos and images of people that they knew.

      Comment by marywaters on October 6th, 2016

      We will add more about sexting as a material practice. Do you think it would be better earlier in the paper like in paragraph 8 when we first talk about sexting as a perceived gateway into revenge porn?

      Comment by marywaters on October 6th, 2016

      We will reframe this to emphasize that this is participants’ understanding. We can add statistics about revenge porn and cybersexual assault in the intro, too.

      Comment by marywaters on October 6th, 2016

      Thank you! We will revise this paragraph.

      Comment by marywaters on October 6th, 2016

      Thanks for catching this typo! We will correct it and add a bit more about the graffiti here.

      Comment by marywaters on October 6th, 2016

      I agree! I’m not sure what happened here. At the very least, we need to add some analysis that links the topic sentence to the problems of Internet regulation.

      Comment by marywaters on October 6th, 2016

      Thanks for catching this. We will fix it!

      Comment by marywaters on October 6th, 2016

      This is an excellent insight. We will reframe the education initiatives.

      Comment by marywaters on October 6th, 2016

      Thank you!

      Comment by marywaters on October 6th, 2016

      Emilee and I will talk this through and clarify the feminist sociological lens — or change it. We intended to use a feminist theoretical lens to explain why revenge porn is thought of as women’s fault and, at the same time, also recognized as gendered violence against women.

      Comment by marywaters on October 6th, 2016

      We will fix the wording.

      Comment by marywaters on October 6th, 2016

      We will add this. We should add a limitations of the study, too, and then invite future research.

      Comment by marywaters on October 6th, 2016

      Thank you for your helpful review! Emilee and I will talk about how we can strengthen the theoretical argument throughout the article and then implement those changes.  Our participants, while all presenting as cisgender, were racially diverse and some did identify as queer. We didn’t record that data on an individual level, unless the participants self-identified during the discussion (and some did). I will talk to Emilee more about the impact race and sexuality might have had in the entire study, too.

      Comment by marywaters on October 6th, 2016

      Thank you! We appreciate hearing this from you.

  • Love In The Time Of Racism (61 comments)

    • Comment by Carol Stabile on April 16th, 2014

      xxx 

      Comment by Alexandra Juhasz on April 16th, 2014

      I’m again testing for speed here, and it’s proving to be very slow, but it is also working

      Comment by Alexandra Juhasz on April 16th, 2014

      there is no space betwen ofTheFeminist Wire, do we note that here?

      Comment by samer on April 25th, 2014

       I think the “But we did not publish…” sentence is missing a word in its second clause. Difficult to follow as is.

      Comment by samer on April 25th, 2014

      If you could offer a more specific summary of the Joseph that would be great, especially because the paragraph where you follow up on her ideas later on is so wonderful.  

      Comment by samer on April 25th, 2014

      This is great! 

      Comment by lusikem on April 30th, 2014

      The article very interesting, thought provoking and critical. Takes us beyond the everyday common assumptions of what love is and the power of love in transforming societiesInteresting argumentHow do we situate the interview on surviving sexual violence within the thesis of the paper which focuses on love in the time of racism? Was the sexual violence of a racist nature?refer to comment on political efficacy of lovethe authors mention political efficacy of love which i find very intriguing, and wish they would discuss more of that concept in their paper by tying it to the transformative abilities of love in helping overcome racism?With the complexities of defining love, who construes what love is? Who constructs the power that love as a concept carries? Looking at concept of love in western societies vis a vis african communities. Could the power that id accorded to love be also a social construction? Is love in itself biased? does society teach us who to love? so we “love” those we are similar to, and for the brave, those who love across racial boundaries, is it an act of rebellion?delete the word “and”. I assume it should read “love is a radical ethic apparatus that is”   

      Comment by lindseycoconnor on May 8th, 2014

      These links open in my current window as opposed to opening another window, which disrupts the reading process. Can this be altered in the final version?

      Comment by lindseycoconnor on May 8th, 2014

      Brief further explanation of the “toxic twitter wars” may be helpful, whether in text or as a footnote that offers a digested version of the article you link to.

      Comment by lindseycoconnor on May 8th, 2014

      Inside the quote, single quotation marks should replace the quotation marks around “yes”, for example. I also feel unclear about where the quote ends.

      Comment by lindseycoconnor on May 8th, 2014

      The first sentence reads as if a word or two is missing or out of place.

      Comment by lindseycoconnor on May 8th, 2014

       This was an interesting section that presented a significant body of scholarship that I was previously unfamiliar with. Thanks for such a thoughtful grounding of your practice.

      Comment by lindseycoconnor on May 8th, 2014

      Again, a brief clause describing footnotes like 100% student engagement may be helpful. Otherwise, I’m diverted away from your paper to read about this initiative with seemingly tenuous links to your argument.

      Comment by lindseycoconnor on May 8th, 2014

      This is minor, but perhaps calling the participants students rather than children is more fitting.

      Comment by lindseycoconnor on May 8th, 2014

       At the end of the paragraph, the community “might look differently,” not “different.”

      Comment by lindseycoconnor on May 8th, 2014

       Disregard the second comment; it belongs under a different paragraph.

      Comment by lindseycoconnor on May 8th, 2014

       At the end of the paragraph, the community “might look differently,” not “different.”

      Comment by lindseycoconnor on May 8th, 2014

      This is a thought-provoking introduction of the project!

      Comment by lindseycoconnor on May 8th, 2014

      Is the abbreviation POTUS necessary here? Also, Living in the End Times and TFW should be italicized. Finally, the last sentence feels a little out of place here or maybe just not in keeping with a streamlined description of the project at hand. Can these ideas be more seamlessly woven into your discussion of the forum, of Syria, of war? These are a lot of complex ideas to examine in just a few short sentences, and I think this detour may be hurting rather than helping my understanding of Love as a Radical Act.

      Comment by lindseycoconnor on May 8th, 2014

      At this point and after a few re-readings, I still feel somewhat unclear about that the Forum actually was– an edited compilation of writings published on TFW? Specifying in the first paragraph exactly what the forum was and what tangible of ephemeral publication came from it would be helpful.

      Comment by mjcasper on May 9th, 2014

      mass meditated should be changed to MASS MEDIATED (but not in all caps) 

      Comment by mjcasper on May 9th, 2014

      sorry, comment from previous paragraph applies to this one (not above):  mass meditated should be changed to mass mediated 

      Comment by mjcasper on May 9th, 2014

      Darnell’s affiliation should be updated to:  Center on African American Religion, Sexuality and Social Justice, Columbia University Monica’s affiliation should be updated to Gender & Women’s Studies and Africana Studies, University of Arizona 

      Comment by mjcasper on May 9th, 2014

      In the heading above, ‘style’ should be capitalized to be consistent with other headers 

      Comment by mjcasper on May 9th, 2014

      In the first sentence after ‘in the romantic’ please add ‘and naturalized’–so that the sentence reads “Feminist scholar Miranda Joseph (2002) has written on the limits of community understood in the romantic and naturalized sense; that is…” 

      Comment by mjcasper on May 9th, 2014

      In the first sentence, please change the word ‘romantic’ to ‘naturalized’  

      Comment by mjcasper on May 9th, 2014

      After the second sentence, add ‘thus sustaining Joseph’s model’ so that  the sentence reads: “In our work, community is an achievement, a hard-earned production, a work in progress, thus sustaining Joseph’s model.”

      Comment by mjcasper on May 9th, 2014

      should be a ‘the’ before the name of the conference 

      Comment by Radhika Gajjala on May 9th, 2014

       I suggest we have this link open up another window since as someone mentioned in an earlier comment – when the link opens up in this window it disrupts the reading process – and I’m sure that’s not intentional. 

      Comment by mjcasper on May 9th, 2014

      Please add a space after (SIROW) and before ‘on’

      Comment by Radhika Gajjala on May 9th, 2014

       and this is a wonderful way to recover interactive mode of writing for productive sustaining work.  

      Comment by mjcasper on May 9th, 2014

      Italicize title of Zizek’s book, and also TFW 

      Comment by mjcasper on May 9th, 2014

       I can’t access paragraph’s 56 and 57, so I will comment here.  There is an extra quote on ‘Modern Love’ in paragraph 57.

      Comment by Radhika Gajjala on May 9th, 2014

       The paragraph is important – and this is why I think several others have also commented on the need for it to be a little more elaborated on. We need more elaboration on this idea of community making.

      Comment by mjcasper on May 9th, 2014

      Please change last sentence to:  It offers a bold contrast to “feminism’s toxic twitter wars,” in which differences are played out via social media in highly contentious and damaging ways.

      Comment by mjcasper on May 9th, 2014

      The Lorde quote ends at cravings; I agree that around yes, no, ‘the time of racism,’ and ‘post-racial’ we could use single quotes 

      Comment by Radhika Gajjala on May 9th, 2014

      just have to say this – THIS is so COOL!! 

      Comment by mjcasper on May 9th, 2014

      Please move the entire last sentence to begin the next paragraph (14), so that this paragraph ends with ‘post-racial.’  

      Comment by mjcasper on May 9th, 2014

      Move final sentence from paragraph 13 to beginning of paragraph 14, then change sentence 2 to “Because, of course, the United States is far from post-racial.”  

      Comment by mjcasper on May 9th, 2014

      Please adjust final sentence to read:  “But we did not immediately publish this forum, as we were winding up a forum on Assata Shakur, and thus were criticized for being absent.” 

      Comment by Radhika Gajjala on May 9th, 2014

       maybe a tiny bit more on what it means to be found objects and an assemblage in a Deluezian sense?

      Comment by mjcasper on May 9th, 2014

      After “100% student engagement” please add a comma, and then the clause “which urges faculty to connect students to the community, broadly defined.” 

      Comment by Radhika Gajjala on May 9th, 2014

       so true.

      Comment by mjcasper on May 9th, 2014

      Agree with Lindsey to change ‘children’ to ‘students’ in the first sentence here 

      Comment by mjcasper on May 9th, 2014

      Please change “POTUS” for President Obama. 

      Comment by mjcasper on May 9th, 2014

      Break last sentence into two parts and add third sentence:But at TFW, we are scholars, culture workers, visual artists, organizers, and writers who strive to maintain a feminist politics that is anti-imperialist. Thus, we name the type of love that produces war (and death, colonialism, lack, morbidity) as an antagonistic force that reserves and stalls justice. A radical love praxis means attending to uses of love that are antithetical to social justice.

      Comment by mjcasper on May 9th, 2014

      Change sentence one to:Our “Love as a Radical Act” forum–a series of essays, stories, poems, and reviews–was published in September 2013…

      Comment by Radhika Gajjala on May 9th, 2014

       “to name awkward silences,… to actively build and re-build… rather than behave as if both are non-existent” – so important…. we have so much to learn from your process.

      Comment by Radhika Gajjala on May 10th, 2014

       This process that you are naming “in-community” rather than as “reifying “Community”  – once again a VERY important point about working collaboratively and reexamining the hierarchies of practice and location that fall inadvertently in place as people work together – could we have you elaborate (or signal that you will elaborate a bit more if you do it later). We want to learn how this is done . I love the way you clearly identify the issue …

      Comment by Radhika Gajjala on May 10th, 2014

      🙂 

      Comment by Radhika Gajjala on May 10th, 2014

      needs cleaning? 

      Comment by Radhika Gajjala on May 10th, 2014

      this is a start… 

      Comment by Radhika Gajjala on May 10th, 2014

      I concur with lindsey 

      Comment by Radhika Gajjala on May 10th, 2014

       very cool!

      Comment by Alexandra Juhasz on May 12th, 2014

       I made this change. It would also be good to link to the article on this in this anthology!

      Comment by Alexandra Juhasz on May 12th, 2014

      done

      Comment by Alexandra Juhasz on May 12th, 2014

      done

      Comment by mjcasper on May 12th, 2014

      Could we please change the word ‘weekly’ to ‘ongoing’ 

      Comment by mjcasper on May 12th, 2014

       after ‘Modern Love,’ there needs to be a closed quote: ‘Modern Love,”

      Comment by mjcasper on May 12th, 2014

      The quotes around “Feminists We Love” should probably be single quote marks… 

      Comment by mjcasper on May 12th, 2014

      xenophobia is misspelled  in final para of the essay; replace zenophobia with xenophobia

  • Make, Share, Care: Social Media and LGBTQ Youth Engagement (51 comments)

    • Comment by Alexandra Juhasz on April 23rd, 2014

      I’m not sure what you mean by “so far” or by “tested” in the first sentence. That said, I might cut the sentence altogether.

      Comment by Alexandra Juhasz on April 23rd, 2014

      What do you mean by “rigorous evaluation”? Aren’t we doing that in this issue, across fields and platforms, for instance?

      Comment by Alexandra Juhasz on April 23rd, 2014

       I’m not sure what you mean by “so far” or by “tested” in the first sentence. That said, I might cut the sentence altogether.

      Comment by Alexandra Juhasz on April 23rd, 2014

      the “;” needs to be changed to a m-dash with another after the parentheses

      Comment by Alexandra Juhasz on April 23rd, 2014

      I am excited to read this after this thesis provocation!

      Comment by Alexandra Juhasz on April 23rd, 2014

       YouTube has a capital T

      Comment by Alexandra Juhasz on April 23rd, 2014

      The last two sentences here need small grammatical fixes

      Comment by Alexandra Juhasz on April 23rd, 2014

      great point!

      Comment by Alexandra Juhasz on April 23rd, 2014

      you might find this article on queer and trans-kids interesting: http://mediacommons.futureofthebook.org/tne/pieces/phone-home (part of a project I co-edited on youth and distraction”)

      Comment by Alexandra Juhasz on April 23rd, 2014

      great points here

      Comment by Alexandra Juhasz on April 23rd, 2014

      great points here and in para 29

      Comment by Alexandra Juhasz on April 23rd, 2014

      In American English we don’t use the term “strap line,” I wonder if this and other British/American word and grammar uses should be consistent or not. In the US we say “tag line.”

      Comment by Alexandra Juhasz on April 23rd, 2014

       This got put on the wrong para, sorry: In American English we don’t use the term “strap line,” I wonder if this and other British/American word and grammar uses should be consistent or not. In the US we say “tag line.”

      Comment by Alexandra Juhasz on April 23rd, 2014

      I love hearing from the people at Allsorts. Could this happen earlier in the piece?

      Comment by Alexandra Juhasz on April 23rd, 2014

      great points

      Comment by Alexandra Juhasz on April 23rd, 2014

      In relation to my point about American/British English, in the US we say “non-profit” rather than “charity” which has another connotation altogether

      Comment by Alexandra Juhasz on April 23rd, 2014

      In the US we don’t use the term “youngster” which would be understood to be condescending and prefer “youth,” or maybe “young people,” again, not sure what to do with this

      Comment by Alexandra Juhasz on April 23rd, 2014

       do you mean outreach, not reach, towards the ends of this para?

      Comment by Alexandra Juhasz on April 24th, 2014

       there is a missing end to the parentheses on [for young LGBTU…

      Comment by Alexandra Juhasz on April 24th, 2014

      sexists 

      Comment by Alexandra Juhasz on April 24th, 2014

      production values (typo)

      Comment by Alexandra Juhasz on April 24th, 2014

      Interesting

      Comment by Alexandra Juhasz on April 24th, 2014

      I really learned a great deal from this careful, on-the-ground study of actual practices and needs. Thanks!

      Comment by rahurst on April 24th, 2014

       Thanks for this very interesting piece – a suggestion I have for the introduction is an indication of the audiences for this article – my inclination after reading it through a couple of times is that it is of interest not only to those interested in studying social media and youth, but also to outreach support workers. 

      Comment by rahurst on April 24th, 2014

       Thanks for this very interesting piece – a suggestion I have for the introduction is an indication of the audiences for this article – my inclination after reading it through a couple of times is that it is of interest not only to those interested in studying social media and youth, but also to outreach support workers. (Sorry, the commenting is not working well for me – this comment is for the first paragraph!)  

      Comment by rahurst on April 24th, 2014

      I like this paragraph, and wonder if it might be moved up to the beginning of the piece?

      Comment by rahurst on April 24th, 2014

      ICT (Information and Communications Technology) – add the bit in parentheses

      Comment by rahurst on April 24th, 2014

      Hi – I am finding the commenting function very clunky, and will put all my feedback into one comment.  I hope that works ok!  It’ll be less confusing than what has happened so far, which is that comments end up being beside paragraphs they shouldn’t be!  🙂  Only the first 3 comments have been left before.Two broad comments about the paper: 1) I kept wondering about the impact that adding social media to outreach support work expectations has on the lives of those workers (and to a lesser extent, those volunteers in the organization).  Do you know anything about that?  It strikes me that while incorporating social media has some benefits for youth, it might be perceived as detrimental to workers (increased expectations in terms of availability – times of day, hours, etc. – as well as using counselling techniques that workers are not trained in/have less faith in – eg. the Gestalt therapist).  2) Somewhat related, I also wanted a bit more on the challenges of social media in this work – while I can see very clearly from your piece that social media has been an invaluable resource for this work, I also wanted a bit more attention paid to what is challenging.  (For eg., incorporating Grindr into the Allsorts repertoire seems like it would pose a range of challenges vis-a-vis boundaries in P41, yet this is not discussed.)P2:  Thanks for this very interesting piece – a suggestion I have for the introduction is an indication of the audiences for this article – my inclination after reading it through a couple of times is that it is of interest not only to those interested in studying social media and youth, but also to outreach support workers. (Sorry, the commenting is not working well for me – this comment is for the first paragraph!) P4: perhaps move up to the beginning?P6: add “(Information and Communications Technology)” after “ICT”P12: no “e” in “Flickr”; “Youtube” to “YouTube”P12: Is there a social media person at Allsorts (volunteer or paid staff), or is this an add-on to existing positions?P13: no “‘s” in “…the sixteen and under(‘s) group”P14: add “(Social Network Sites)” after SNSP16: add dash between LGBTQ and related: “LGBTQ-related”P17: Remove the “Social network sites” in line 2, as you have now added it to P14P26: line 2 “…in their mental well being we have…” to “…in their mental well being(, COMMA) we have…”P29: “…message posted in a group for example they can…” to “…message posted in a group(, COMMA) for example(, COMMA) they can…”P29 “…increased access come increased expectations” to “”…increased access come_S_ increased expectations”P30: I wanted more attention paid to digital exclusion in this article more broadly.  Perhaps this is something that Allsorts does not address full on, but I do think it is key to be critical of it if this is the case.  P32: First sentence is difficult to read – can you simplify?P35: Again, my questions related to the assumptions around youth access and exclusion in relation to those technologies necessary to access social media by the organization have arisen.  Can we assume that youth really do have access and literacy?  (Note I am not familiar with Brighton in particular, but in my context, I could assume some familiarity but not necessarily access or literacy.)P51: last line – “loosing” to “losing”P54: “Facebook activities are one aspect of an opportunity…” to “Facebook activities are an opportunity…”P54: “…can find their way onto Facebook, – an opportunity…” to “…can find their way onto Facebook, providing an opportunity…”P54: SDM – what is this?P60: “LGBT identity and community’.” to “LGBT identity and community.'”P60: “(UCG) on their timeline/wall; its…” to “(UCG) on their timeline/wall: it’s…”P64: Can you say why the proliferation of online locations for campaigns is a success?  How do you measure this – greater number of hits/shares/likes, for example?P71: are caps necessary for “Social and Digital Media” in line 2?P76: line 3″ “the youth engagement profile for example does” to “the youth engagement profile(,COMMA) for example(, COMMA) does…”P79: reference after Pullen in first line is weird – place at end of sentence and add period to the end of that piece.P80: “social media in and of them selves” sounds weird to me – can you change it to something like “The study identifies that social media are not built primarily with outreach objectives in mind.”?? 

      Comment by afotopoulou on April 26th, 2014

      It might be useful for the reader to get here an indication of who the risk and more established groups within LGBTQ youth might be. 

      Comment by afotopoulou on April 26th, 2014

      Perhaps a positioning within the relevant social media & sexuality lit (rather than earlier new media and sexuality lit) might make the purposes and necessity of the piece stronger.

      Comment by afotopoulou on April 26th, 2014

      It might be useful to give a couple of examples of such digital programs for charities and small organisations. Also, what kinds of restrictive e-policies? It might be relevant to give a bit more background now or later in the piece to specify ‘early adoption’ for allsorts (since when, what media etc).

      Comment by afotopoulou on April 26th, 2014

      A connection between LGBT youth and mental health is implied here, but it is difficult at this point to understand if/how far this has been a key question for the project.  

      Comment by afotopoulou on April 26th, 2014

      As noted in a previous comment, this key theme in the piece could be introduced in a stronger way early on. A methods paragraph would also be useful in the background section, since this is mainly an empirical project.

      Comment by afotopoulou on April 26th, 2014

      Please add references after ‘literature’.

      Comment by afotopoulou on April 26th, 2014

      Alex, the use of charity oven non-profit is valid here: in the UK there is a distinct charity sector (https://www.charitycommission.gov.uk/). Hence I think the UK US terms should be maintained in the issue as general rule, in order to reflect the context they aim to describe, and since the audience of the issue (and the connotations they create) is non US-specific. 

      Comment by afotopoulou on April 26th, 2014

      Comments on the piece overallThis is a very interesting study of Brighton’s LGBTQ youth engagement and social media. I have made some comments paragraph by paragraph in the text below, which I hope will help make the piece stronger, and in addition here is some comments on the piece overall.In terms of structure, I would consolidate some of the sections (for instance mental health sections) so that there are no one-paragraph sections. The conclusion is really good and gives a great sense of the findings and implications of the project. It would be good to have a similarly clear and strong introduction: re-writing the intro would help to bring the key themes of the article to the front in a more pronounced way, would tell us why the research is necessary for LGBTQ youth, for Brighton and in the context of the existing literature in the field, and would give a better sense to the reader of what follows. Finally, the addition of a methodological paragraph in the background section is important since the piece is empirical.

      Comment by Alexandra Juhasz on April 26th, 2014

      Of course, Aristeae.  We are agreed that we’ll keep each article written in its own “vernacular,” or cultural context, so to say.

      Comment by mjcasper on May 9th, 2014

      Could you clarify what “examined and tested in relation to technology and sexuality” means? 

      Comment by mjcasper on May 9th, 2014

      This is a really interesting project, and I’m looking forward to reading more. I do think your intro could be strengthened, both by foregrounding the purpose of the study and also by linking it to some broader concerns raised by this special issue of Ada. 

      Comment by mjcasper on May 9th, 2014

      I wonder if you might expand this a bit to cover stratified use of the Internet, in terms of class and race? 

      Comment by mjcasper on May 9th, 2014

      In your intro, I’d like to see a broader discussion of mental health issues in relation to LGBTQ youth. Can you share earlier some statistics and implications for LGBTQ wellbeing? 

      Comment by mjcasper on May 9th, 2014

      Given my previous comment, it might be worth exploring further issues of digital exclusion. Depending on your interests, it might also be interesting and provocative to explore the notion of ‘exclusion’ socially and digitally. You’re studying a population that faces considerable social exclusion; and you seem to be arguing for greater ‘inclusion’ found online. But there are some intriguing issues raised here about exclusion and inclusion, and how social media either exacerbates exclusion or fixes it. 

      Comment by mjcasper on May 9th, 2014

      To some degree, this paragraph gets at the ‘community’ issues raised earlier, namely who is the presumed community of social media outreach/services? Just as certain assumptions might be made about LGBTU people, so too might there be made assumptions about ‘youth.’ Could be worth clarifying distinctions between an imagined community and who is actually using social media in this context.  

      Comment by mjcasper on May 9th, 2014

      I would break this paragraph into smaller parts, with a bit more explanation/analysis… 

      Comment by mjcasper on May 9th, 2014

       In this section, as in the previous section, given that you use headers to separate, you might wrap up each section with a paragraph that sums up and discusses implications

      Comment by mjcasper on May 9th, 2014

      Again, I would suggest here some unpacking of this paragraph; divide into some smaller paragraphs with clearer and more coherent analysis. 

      Comment by mjcasper on May 9th, 2014

      I’d like to see here a more sustained discussion of the distinctions/similarities between ‘mental health’ as it’s understood in the context of service provision, and social vulnerability. There’s quite a literature on structural vulnerability, and it might be useful to link to this here. 

      Comment by mjcasper on May 9th, 2014

      I’d recommend breaking this paragraph up a bit.  You could start a new para with “Dew explains,” and another with “As Ben explains…”

      Comment by mjcasper on May 9th, 2014

      My understanding is that Facebook has addressed some of these concerns with more gender-neutral and genderqueer language?

      Comment by mjcasper on May 9th, 2014

      I’m interested here in the distinctions between activism and campaigning…curious about how new media are driving different forms and definitions of activism. Wonder if you might expand on this a bit?  Is there a literature in this area to connect to? 

      Comment by mjcasper on May 9th, 2014

      Such an interesting article; there’s a lot of ‘meat’ here empirically. You also hint at ways your research can help lead to best practices or policy change; it might be nice to expand the conclusions a bit to take this up.

  • How do we create a technological world without misogyny? (51 comments)

    • Comment by zdai@bgsu.edu on February 10th, 2017

      [Consider the following statistics: the National Center for Women and Information Technology reports that female SAT takers intending to major in computer and information sciences decreased from 20% in 2001 to 12% in 2006.]

      I appreciate the author using statistics to explain the reason of few girls enroll in computer science. Are there any latest  statistics can support this?

      Comment by zdai@bgsu.edu on February 10th, 2017

      [With considerable injustice, the well-established meaning of technology has a patriarchal bias that is defined in terms of the activities, artifacts, desires, knowledge, processes, and skills that interest men, subsequently diminishing the significance and lengthy herstory of feminine technologies like horticulture, cooking, childcare, and textiles.]

      The readers are expecting the author can clearly identity the term of “injustice”.

      Comment by zdai@bgsu.edu on February 10th, 2017

      The author provides a solid analysis that girls lack opportunities to contribute to technology culture. In the middle of the article, the author discusses about women and labor, and towards the end states about womenhood. As far as I am concerned, it is about the connection between girl/girlhood and women/womenhood. The readers are expecting to read a more strong transition and a more clear connection between these two terms. Importantly, reading the first part of the essay it makes me think this paper is only about girls/adolescents. Readers are expecting the author can tie first part of the content more closely to the title, too.

      Comment by zdai@bgsu.edu on February 10th, 2017

      I appreciate the author intends to conclude the essay with how can we create a technological world without misogyny. However, it is a pity that the author does not construct a solid analysis of misogyny in the previous sections. There is a potential connection and examination, which is not very clear for the readers.

      Comment by Sky Croeser on February 17th, 2017

      Perhaps this is also a good place to reflect on the ways in which our understandings of what constitutes technology are gendered? For example, we tend to think of computers as ‘technology’, but crochet and knitting as ‘craft’ rather than technology.

      Comment by Sky Croeser on February 17th, 2017

      As Ada is intended for a global audience, it may be useful to clarify which ‘National Centre’ this refers to: are you focusing on the US, or looking more broadly?

      Comment by Sky Croeser on February 17th, 2017

      Perhaps clarify the boundaries of the ‘technology workforce’ you’re referring to here.

      Comment by Sky Croeser on February 17th, 2017

      In general, I’d suggest trying not to end paragraphs with quotations: the thread of your argument will be easier to follow if you end with a sentence that helps position this point within your overall analysis.

      Comment by Sky Croeser on February 17th, 2017

      It may be useful to shift this to earlier in the discussion. Perhaps also diversify the sources you’re drawing on: the last few paragraphs rely rather heavily on Wajcman, and may benefit from a broader use of the literature (including research by Indigenous women and other post/anti-colonial perspectives).

      Comment by Sky Croeser on February 17th, 2017

      This might work better immediately following paragraph 13 (which would also work with shifting paragraph 14’s discussion of the gendered understanding of technology to earlier in the piece).

      Comment by Sky Croeser on February 17th, 2017

      It may be worth elaborating on the inequalities within industrialised societies here. (And again, trying to end with your own linking sentence.)

      Comment by Sky Croeser on February 17th, 2017

      Consider shifting some of your rhetorical questions, which you use quite often, to statements which more clearly signal your analysis/argument.

      Comment by Sky Croeser on February 17th, 2017

      It may be worth, here, more clearly signalling how your analysis will build on and extend Wajcman’s work, and how you will avoid the pitfall of reinforcing patriarchal notions of technology.

      Comment by Sky Croeser on February 17th, 2017

      Again, it would be useful to ensure your own analysis is present here: how will you be building on and extending Wacjman’s work?

      Comment by Sky Croeser on February 17th, 2017

      While I see the use of a literature overview which raises key questions, I think that much of the material in this section may be familiar to readers of Ada already. Doing more to connect this overview to your overarching analysis, making your own voice and argument clear, could help with this. Consider more explicitly identifying the questions you will (and won’t) be attempting to address, and the ways in which you will build on and extend the existing literature and theoretical frameworks.

      While you briefly mention perspectives that draw on class, race, and other oppressions and inequalities, you may also want to draw more on scholars working in these areas (depending on how this meshes with your overarching analysis).

      Comment by Sky Croeser on February 17th, 2017

      It may be useful to give more information on the demographic here: for example, was this in the US? Were the girls from financially well-off families? Were many from marginalised ethnic or linguistic groups?

      Comment by Sky Croeser on February 17th, 2017

      Perhaps reference the video game you worked on in the abstract, or briefly explain it in the introduction as you give an overview of your argument.

      Comment by Sky Croeser on February 17th, 2017

      “What might become thinkable and doable if we heed Wajcman’s (2004) counsel and act upon Leonard’s advice: “For if we decide what a technological society ought to be and set out to make it that way, then we have reason to expect that we have a chance to succeed in putting technology to work to serve the values we believe in” (2003: 188).” – is this a question? (If so, perhaps rephrase as a statement.)

      Comment by Sky Croeser on February 17th, 2017

      “with the objective of not to figure the one right game for all girls” – slightly awkward, consider rephrasing.

      Comment by Sky Croeser on February 17th, 2017

      “I am not so naïve to view momME” > “I am not so naïve as to view momME

      Comment by Sky Croeser on February 17th, 2017

      Again, a lot of rhetorical questions here! Don’t be afraid to leave room for your own voice and analysis.

      Comment by Sky Croeser on February 17th, 2017

      There’s some good material in this article, but I think that in many ways it attempts to cover too much ground, and gives too little space to the author’s original research and analysis.

      This might be addressed by:

      1) Cutting down the literature review section, and shifting its focus to link more directly to the case study under discussion. For example, which aspects of the literature are most relevant and pressing for understanding what the case study set out to achieve?

      2) Providing more space to examining the case study in depth, including unpacking the lessons it provided and its limitations.

      3) Either addressing the issue of online harassment in more depth and by drawing more deeply on relevant literature, or decreasing the focus on this (as it currently seems like a diversion from the main analysis).

      4) Changing the title to more clearly communicate the central argument and focus: the current title sets up a question which it leaves unanswered.

      Comment by Kate O'Riordan on February 17th, 2017

      the opening (for centuries) is very general – there have been differences in this over time – for example societal norms in the early 1980s around inclusion in technology shifted from much more positive openings that were then closed down in the late 1980s and the 1990s. More attention to the differences rather than the narrative about always being limited would enhance this lead in.

      Comment by Kate O'Riordan on February 17th, 2017

      It would be helpful to have more precision about the kinds of technologies assessed here. The slippage between, for example, housework type technologies and computational or games related examples does some disservice to the analysis. Some consideration about how this analysis is different to other initiatives designed to get women into computing – including the pink games moment – would he helpful in bringing to the fore the specificity of the arguments presented here.

      Comment by Carina Assunção on February 19th, 2017

      [woman ]

      typo

      Comment by Carina Assunção on February 19th, 2017

      [ If you dare to do or say something we don’t like, we’ll expose you in return.”]

      a reference to doxxing could be made here, even one from this same issue:
      RUIN LIFE TACTICS: ON THE GENDERED EVOLUTION OF DOXING By Aidan Grealish

      Comment by Carina Assunção on February 19th, 2017

      Paula, your paper is very well written though there are minor typos and linking sentences missing at the end of paragraphs.

      It is a fascinating topic and I enjoyed your use of technology studies literature throughout, linking it to women’s involvement in technology.

      I do, however, concur with the other reviewer regarding the scope and, consequently, the title of your paper.

      On one hand, you don’t mention the game created on the abstract (or the introduction), which I think should be the main focus of the piece. On the other hand, you cover a great deal of material, and technological artefacts, that perhaps mislead the readers. We end up with a general overview, like an introduction and lit review, without proper answers at the end. (to the question in the title).

      Comment by pgardner on February 20th, 2017

      Hi.  It would be helpful to delimit the areas of the “technology sphere” that you are referencing. As well it would be helpful to delimit any geographic or nationstate environments you are referring to as the subject of this research.

      Comment by pgardner on February 20th, 2017

      Hi Paula. Thank you for your contribution.  It would be helpful to delimit the areas of the “technology sphere” that you are referencing. As well it would be helpful to delimit any geographic or nationstate environments you are referring to as the subject of this research.

      Comment by pgardner on February 20th, 2017

      Agreed:  I would recommend that you work to open up with concerns but work to restrain your key inquiry and  the time/space of your inquiry.

       

      Comment by pgardner on February 20th, 2017

      Can you note research showing a positive relationship between making, empowerment and social change making for girls?  That would substantiate why girls should be trained in making.

      Comment by pgardner on February 20th, 2017

      I’d suggest you reorganize the start of the paper– set up the time/space you are addressing; show research demonstrating that women/girls are left out of technology sectors; bring in research showing the benefits of bringing women/girls into tech education/sectors to create innovations.  Then you need to set up that gaming can serve this educational function.  Then you can set up your research questions.

      Comment by pgardner on February 20th, 2017

      Again , can you clarify which girls and where. The environments of North America or Europe offer different affordances than environments in the global south; as well, these environments are classed, which limits access to some.

       

      What does linguistically innovative mean– this is a great place to dig in and make a strong point. what is the link to liberating?

      Comment by pgardner on February 20th, 2017

      Can you frame this as rates of women/girls rather than not enough are pursuing?  The issue is that many don’t see tech education/jobs as an option…

       

      Can you nuance the last statement– is it only a question of who holds power or of many things…who gets to make things/make decisions about content/enter certain educational environments that train for tech (ICT/media) jobs?

      Comment by pgardner on February 20th, 2017

      Can you help readers to understand what you mean by power?

      Comment by pgardner on February 20th, 2017

      These ideas fit into the technological determinism debate… can you situate these as such?

      Comment by pgardner on February 20th, 2017

      Can you work to clarify that these are technologies that have been used and practiced with by women and are not (essentially) feminine practices; this helps you avoid the essentialism problem.

      Comment by pgardner on February 20th, 2017

      Again, I think this argument would be much stronger if you had defined a place/time/population you were addressing.  Some women never have appliances as aids.  Some could never conceive of a life where they were not the prime caretaker of the entire family.

      Comment by pgardner on February 20th, 2017

      So then here you can move to absences in research that studies the relationship of “women” to “technology”

      Comment by pgardner on February 20th, 2017

      Judy Wacjman’s work is formative and important; however, she herself would encourage you to add some other feminist tech scholars to the argument– and to update the refs to understand comtemporary technological environments.  Consider Anne Balsamo, Katherine Hayles…

      Comment by pgardner on February 20th, 2017

      Readers would benefit from a transition here.  What precisely are the issues your study is tackling and then how can games facilitate a way to learn about tech? It is helpful to lay this reasoning out for readers.

      Comment by pgardner on February 20th, 2017

      Also can you clarify the goals of this program– what are the amazing things that girls are capable of and how does the program teach/instruct and what are the things that girls learn?

      Comment by pgardner on February 20th, 2017

      Can you give detail- what is the play?/ what is the “reality” being made more engaging?

      Comment by pgardner on February 20th, 2017

      Readers need more detail of the project to understand how objectives were met

      Comment by pgardner on February 20th, 2017

      As part of your earlier edits and here as well, can you elucidate how girls become storytellers?  And do they learn techniques to encourage listening of their stories? and what kind of empowerment do they learn and need; what are their purposes?

      Comment by pgardner on February 20th, 2017

      More detail will make this more persuasive- what types of learning/programs,, where etc.

      Comment by pgardner on February 20th, 2017

      Thank you Paula for your paper.  See my comments above but generally I think you want to try to move from the macro view of these big picture issues to the micro problems, targeting particular girls in particular environments. You will want to explain in more detail as well your game and its objectives that take on these problematics.

       

      Good luck with this paper and with your PhD

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 22nd, 2017

      Schwartz Cowan’s book title is More Work for Mother.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 22nd, 2017

      I second Paula’s comment above. It would be good to provide a more lengthy description of the game and game play. Also, I worry about a creeping essentialism here — one that tends toward the pink game problem of the 2000s, with girls understood to like community building experiences and art rather than a broader range of activities and forms of game play.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 22nd, 2017

      One issue I had throughout this contribution was the formulation of girls as a category of analysis. Historically, “girls” (like women) has been used to name a specifically heterosexual, white, middle-class subject. Girls’ studies in particular has only recently begun to address this problem. Still, it seems to me that we shouldn’t speak of “girls’ values” without addressing this problematic.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 22nd, 2017

      I like the framing of this essay as a crucial rhetorical question. My sense is that the essay would benefit from a tighter framework and maybe one more focused on the work you did with your co-researchers. To begin with, the literature review could be condensed and perhaps could incorporate some science and technology studies work on race (Alondra Nelson is the first author who comes to mind). But you’d also need to conceptualize the review in such as a way that leads directly into your own research. Expanding and elaborating on that research — and being more specific about the concrete ways in which your research sought to address the question you pose in your title — seems your singular contribution to the body of literature on this topic.

  • The New Cyborg Manifesto: Mathematico-Physico Discourse, Re-Normaliation and Feminist Science Fiction (50 comments)

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  • Mutt, Monster or Melting-Pot? Mixed-Race Metaphor and Obama’s Ambivalent Hybridity. (50 comments)

    • Comment by l.e.strait@gmail.com on September 24th, 2014

      You may want to break up the sentences in this paragraph to make comprehensible the varied methodologies to be employed.  

      Comment by jeremiahfavara on September 24th, 2014

      Could you spend some more time defining and clarifying what you mean by digital humanities methodologies?   

      Comment by l.e.strait@gmail.com on September 24th, 2014

      It may be useful here to share the referent case study — both for readers unfamiliar with the situation, and also to ground your theoretical efforts.  

      Comment by jeremiahfavara on September 24th, 2014

      This paragraph does a good job of demonstrating how Obama is figured as a hybrid figure of multiculturalism. 

      Comment by l.e.strait@gmail.com on September 24th, 2014

      This is great! 

      Comment by jeremiahfavara on September 24th, 2014

      Rather than leading with general discussion of how Obama has been discussed in a metaphorical manner, it might be helpful to provide specific examples. 

      Comment by jeremiahfavara on September 24th, 2014

      The essay does a good job demonstrating how Obama’s body acts a signifying figure of hybridity. However, the relationship between various metaphors of hybridity and politics of structural racism and problematic ideologies – and the implications of such relationships – could be made more clear.

      Comment by jeremiahfavara on September 24th, 2014

      Why are questions about the exotification of difference left aside? Positive portrayals of Obama as an embodiment of change seem to be imbued with a sense of importance and insight that can only be gained from his unusual position as an ambassador of multiculturalism. 

      Comment by Karen Estlund on September 24th, 2014

      It might be stronger to link to textual excerpts from similar online publications or to describe why these excerpts should be considered equivocal examples of reflections of the public sphere.

      Comment by jeremiahfavara on September 24th, 2014

      The last sentence of this paragraph makes a clear link between Obama as monster and Foucault’s framing of monstrosity as linked to breaches of moral law. However, the connection between Obama’s pro-choice politics and Puar and Rai’s insights about monsters as sexual deviants is less clear and could be elaborated.  

      Comment by jeremiahfavara on September 24th, 2014

      Specific examples of how Obama, as a writer, contributes to his skinning through text would be helpful.  

      Comment by l.e.strait@gmail.com on September 24th, 2014

       I see that you addressed this later, but an earlier introduction might still be helpful for the reader. Is this the prominent case study for the piece? I think that a clearer layout of objects for examination early on might help to construct a more legible thesis. 

      Comment by jeremiahfavara on September 24th, 2014

      This example seems to be where the paper really begins to delve into the ways that specific metaphors of hybridity function in broader political discussions of race. More use of specific examples from Obama’s skinning and their circulation in discursive could strengthen the essay as a whole. 

      Comment by l.e.strait@gmail.com on September 24th, 2014

       This section might benefit from a connection to your later discussion of Foucault’s monster — in terms of the inconceivable as the futurity/third space.

      Comment by Karen Estlund on September 24th, 2014

      I would be cautious using Google hits as a metric, since results are domain and profile specific, as well as phrase searches may be broken up for additional results. For example, I got less than 83,000 hits when querying the same phrase today.

      Comment by l.e.strait@gmail.com on September 24th, 2014

      You might want to reword the abstract as it mirrors certain sections of your paper verbatim.  

      Comment by jeremiahfavara on September 24th, 2014

      This paragraph mentions the political work that skinning can do for Obama, his party, and the nation. More discussion of the links between Obama’s politics and his construction as a hybrid figure, through discussions of the body and skin, could strengthen the theoretical insights made earlier in the essay. This paragraph leads to very interesting questions that, if addressed and explored further, could help to frame a revision of this essay. 

      Comment by l.e.strait@gmail.com on September 24th, 2014

      This paper explores such impressive theoretical leaps and connections, and so I would love any opportunities to hold on a little tighter. With that in mind, a more concretized connection between theory, objects, and praxis (what next?) would really help the reader to follow. I found that your essay really picked up mid-way, and peaked at the end. Perhaps starting where you end up to rework structure a bit would help to make your argument more lucid. 

      Comment by Carol Stabile on October 7th, 2014

      Since digital humanities methodologies are framed as being central to what follows, it would be helpful to say something about what those are and why they merit the DH modifier.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on October 7th, 2014

      While I find your analysis compelling, the notion of skinning that you say is central to it really drops out in favor of a conceptualization of hybridity. I think it would be helpful to revisit your opening paragraphs in light of the analysis that follows and consider strategies for making your framework more robust. 

      Comment by Carol Stabile on October 7th, 2014

      This is a really well-written contribution. Like other commenters, I’d like to see more examples of this discourse. And, as I mention above, it would be helpful at this point to also work on the introduction and conclusion as a way of making your central line of inquiry more evident to readers. It might be helpful to set up the argument in terms of the hybrid, monstrous, and mutt. While the notion of skinning is provocative, it’s not fully realized in this draft. And I would also recommend dropping the language of digital humanities methodologies unless that’s central to a revised version of this contribution.

      I also wonder whether about the extent to which this contribution is about the impossibility of more utopian practices of hybridity. It’s not 2008, that is, and we have a very good sense of the ways in which Obama has not lived up to the hopes that were invested in him in 2007.

      Comment by brittneycooper on October 13th, 2014

      I actually really like this paragraph. Think it powerfully frames the point which is about how we should think of the hybridity discourse attached to the President.  

      Comment by brittneycooper on October 13th, 2014

       I like the invocation of dermographia here. Unfortunately, it turns out that he’s not the “most protected of bodies” if recent scandals are any indicator. But that, too, is not divorced from skin politics.

      Comment by brittneycooper on October 13th, 2014

       I agree with dropping the language of digital humanities. I don’t think it’s necessary here. And I think the moves you make from melting pot, to monster, to mutt, are a provocative framing that should appear early in the essay and be worked through throughout. I found the examples sufficient, but if you have more it certainly won’t hurt.  

      Comment by keithfeldman on October 17th, 2014

      This is an important project, and I appreciate the Foucauldian frame.  I would also recommend breaking up these sentences and clarifying a bit further why you turn to a genealogical analysis. I’m also not sure what the difference is between a “Foucauldian genealogical discourse analysis” and simply a “discourse analysis.” The former seems much more muddled, at least at the outset. If there’s some value you see in qualifying your method in this way, I’d suggest noting it early on.   

      Comment by keithfeldman on October 17th, 2014

      The citation to Kraidy is nice; could you add in citations for the other  claims? 

      Comment by keithfeldman on October 17th, 2014

      Let me add, also, that it’s not only hybridity, but multi-racialism specifically, that figures Obama. Critiques of the aspirational discourses of multiracialism as they are animated by anti-blackness (see Sexton), might be warranted here. 

      Comment by keithfeldman on October 17th, 2014

      There is a wealth of scholarly literature on Obama’s election and the meanings of race, blackness, and anti-blackness that attend to it. Tim Wise, Joy James, Dylan Rodriguez, Moustafa Bayoumi, and Eduardo Bonilla-Silva are among the scholars that, in different ways, reckon critically with the assumptive logic that generate celebratory narratives from Obama’s election. It strikes me that considerations of the structural violence that persists within the US state–regardless of the body inhabiting the White House–might be warranted, if even briefly.  

      Comment by keithfeldman on October 17th, 2014

      Puar and Rai’s essay, Monster Terrorist Fag, seems in the background of the paragraph. Could you bring it out more? And perhaps some of the work by Jeffrey Jerome Cohen–for instance, Monster Theory (Minnesota, 1996)? 

      Comment by keithfeldman on October 17th, 2014

      Here it is! Nice! 

      Comment by keithfeldman on October 17th, 2014

      I echo Jeremiah here. The last couple sentences are where your argument takes off–could use a bit more elaboration to understand where you want to take it. How is a pro-choice politics framed as an expression of sexual deviancy? 

      Comment by keithfeldman on October 17th, 2014

      This is a provocative essay, and I particularly appreciate your engagement with a notion of dermographia. It also reminded me of Fanon’s notion of sociogeny, especially his writing on the function of the flesh in the racial colonial setting. (Perhaps that might be useful to bring to bear?) Let me echo Brittany and Carol–the DH framing seems unnecessary, and I don’t quite see a genealogical approach playing out in an substantive ways. Perhaps the through-line worth thickening is what a purported hack of the B/W binary–through Obama’s mixed genealogy, the celebration/condemnation of his hybridity, etc.–does to that binary.

      Comment by conseulafrancis on October 18th, 2014

      I’m wondering here what a “digital humanities methodology” is and how it differs from a simple Google search. What does this methodology offer that’s different than a discourse analysis methodology? Also what does Foucault offer? What does his work bring that better helps you illuminate your this discourse around Obama’s hybridity?Finally, I agree with others that the second sentence could be broken up for greater clarity.

      Comment by conseulafrancis on October 18th, 2014

      I actually really like this paragraph and the concept of dermographia, but I think it might work better if it comes earlier (even just one paragraph earlier). Your voice, the interesting ideas *you* are bringing to the table comes out here. I want that sooner. 

      Comment by conseulafrancis on October 18th, 2014

       So, at this, about halfway through this short paper, it seems as if I am getting to the real meat. If the ultimate intent here is a discourse analysis of the negative portrayals of Obama’s hybridity in the digital sphere, that needs to be signposted much earlier on. The discussion of the various theorists being brought together to make this argument seem to be a bit of a distraction.

      Comment by conseulafrancis on October 18th, 2014

      I’ll echo others on the digital humanities language. It doesn’t really lend anything to your argument (and doesn’t strike me as very different that discourse analysis methodology). More importantly, it is not quite clear what the through-thread of your essay is. Is it dermography? Is it the negative portrayals of Obama’s hybridity? Is it the ambivalence of hybridity? A more effective introduction can reframe your ideas so that your reader has a better sense of your focus. The concept of dermography is a good one in this argument since it seems that discussion of Obama’s hybridity happens so often at the level of his skin. Specific examples (one where Obama writes his own skin, one of an optimistic view of his hybridity, one of a negative view) would also help with give this essay clearer focus.Finally, I’ll say that you should reframe the paragraphs that introduce the theorists/theories you make use of so that your voice leads rather than the theorists. I didn’t feel that I was really getting your voice/ideas until the end.  Tell us what you found useful in their work, certainly, but don’t give them credit for your ideas.

      Comment by conseulafrancis on October 18th, 2014

      Thinking about the issue’s theme, hacking the black/white binary, is it possible that the ambivalence about Obama’s hybridity (which is poised, presumably, to effectively hack this binary–that’s what makes him monstrous) stems from an ambivalence about this binary disappearing? Who is invested in it and why? Certainly folks like David Duke need the binary to sustain white supremacy, but Nina Moon’s ambivalence about “mutt” is telling. 

      Comment by mrhee on October 19th, 2014

       In addition to mixed race and hybrid identities, seems important to respond to the Islamaphobia present in the epigraphs, and the intersectional racism of how Obama’s identity is framed at some point here or elsewhere in the paper. 

      Comment by mrhee on October 19th, 2014

      really appreciate the utilization of chimera here in terms of Obama. While it is common knowledge, may want to provide what is Obama’s actual mixed race identity 

      Comment by mrhee on October 19th, 2014

      really appreciate this emphasis on the theorization of skin and skin writing. may be productive though to take time with reorganization, to make sure larger argument contains skin as text, and hybrity. it may be useful to have a more specific example of body in the epigraphs that frame this essay. 

      Comment by mrhee on October 19th, 2014

       would help reader follow with more transitional topic sentences that uphold your larger argument. I appreciate the rereading of Bhabba, Anzaldua, and inclusion of Heidegger, but would like more connections to your original argument on Obama. Would like to see more of your voice here. 

      Comment by mrhee on October 19th, 2014

       This is a good example of hybrity but would be stronger to have more analysis of this example/quote. 

      Comment by mrhee on October 19th, 2014

      might want to quote Mbembe directly not qtd in Starn  

      Comment by mrhee on October 19th, 2014

       May want to quote Puar if you are drawing from “monstor, terroist, fag?” I really appreciate this paragraph but would suggest to makre sure overall argument on skin, body, and hybridity is brought back

      Comment by mrhee on October 19th, 2014

      I appreciate this reading of Obama as monstor but I wonder abt introducing this earlier on in the essay in the core argument. seems like it starts the essay over again. would like this included in the framework 

      Comment by mrhee on October 19th, 2014

      Can you reread this really provocative and fitting quote via your articulation of Obama skin and body more? would love to see more elaboration here.  

      Comment by mrhee on October 19th, 2014

      encourage revision of topic sentences not to start with the theorists, but centered on your core arguments for essay/paragraph  

      Comment by mrhee on October 19th, 2014

      if you searched via google, would love to see this included in a short description of methodology. may illuminate also on a discussion of hacking or in this instance, how the internet can reify and demonstrate such racist and homophobic characterizations. why are google hits significant? how might this construct the monstor in differing ways? puar discussion of viral technologies in Terrorist Assemblage may be useful to engage with here. 

      Comment by mrhee on October 19th, 2014

      the essay includes these really rich and complex quotes but does not take time to upack them for us, would suggest to take a paragraph or two to include analysis of these quotes. May want to reduce quote to 1 and include more of your elaboration.  

      Comment by mrhee on October 19th, 2014

       <p>I love how skin comes back here, but after the first time it was introduced earlier on in the essay, there was barely any engagement or support to pull this framework through. The quotes/outside material are relevant but would encourage taking more time to develop and unpack the examples more.  </p>

  • Self-Saving Princess: Feminism and Post-Play Narrative Modding (50 comments)

    • Comment by ibull on February 9th, 2013

      Paragraph 1 notes: I would shy away from generalizing the role of all princess if you’re not going to identify rare alternative moments that may occur in multiplayer play; MarioKart, for example, facilitates a princess avatar that is not saved, but that participates in “normal” game play.

      Comment by ibull on February 10th, 2013

      “Female protagonists…the male protagonist.” <- This sentence needs some grammatical attention.

      Comment by ibull on February 10th, 2013

      Something to consider: what does post-play development mean in an era when many games are seldom published as “complete” products—when many games are augmented by DLC?

      This paragraph could also use some grammatical attention (hint: consistency of hyphens)

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 26th, 2013

      I love this opening — am reminded of Donna Haraway’s line at the end of Cyborg Manifesto, where she says that she’d rather be a cyborg than a goddess. Or a princess, one might add!

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 26th, 2013

      I’m not sure that “post-play” captures what you’re talking about. Players often interact with forums and blogs while playing, while — as you point out — other players may not have encountered game play before they begin engaging with the worlds and content. Also, are films and other commercial appropriations of game worlds forms of modding? It seems that you’re really talking about world building rather than modding. Might be helpful to engage with some of the literature on that topic (e.g. Jenkins, Taylor, et al.).

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 26th, 2013

      I’d like to have more of a sense of what you mean by modding. In particular, I’d like to see you unpack the second sentence of this paragraph. Do you mean that you are going to analyze modding — and here the definition will be crucial — by looking at discussions of game narratives on online fora? And what do you mean by “discussion surrounding game play and game design that happens without the intent of feminist critique or modding”? For me, this is a really crucial paragraph, so being sharp and clear in defining modding, what you’re going to analyze in the essay, and how it relates to feminist game studies is essential.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 26th, 2013

      Not sure that “libidinal” is the right word here. Maybe passionate? If you’re committed to “libidinal” (and you use it again two paragraphs down), perhaps explain what you mean by it.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 26th, 2013

      Not clear to me how Sarkeesian is engaging in post-play narrative modding. She’s engaging in critique, which you suggest in your second paragraph is not post-play narrative modding. Again, I think that establishing a clear definition of what you mean by PPNM in the first part of the paper is going to help you address some of the issues throughout. You might find that world building is a more appropriate (and capacious term), in which case the Sarkeesian example would make some sense — the worlds some players are building are in fact sexist and racist ones and these players are outraged when discordant notes are introduced into them. For me, this would be a timely critique of world building and the way in which players’ worlds can collide.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 26th, 2013

      By “community,” in line 5, I’m assuming that you mean a kind of hegemonic masculinity, grounded in whiteness and heterosexism? This is another really important paragraph, imo, and worth really teasing out the meaning of what you’re saying. As I understand this, you’re suggesting that feminist critiques elicit violent and vitriolic responses from the protectors of these worlds, but that these responses themselves are generative of additional moments of resistance (e.g. the support for Sarkeesian, Hepler, and Jade Redmond before either of them).

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 26th, 2013

      It almost seems like you’re talking about a kind of unintentional feminist trolling? Which is to say that male protectors of their worlds respond in the way that troll bait usually responds: they feed the feminist trolls. You should check out Amanda Phillips’ piece on resistance. For me, this is the most intriguing aspect of your essay — that protection of these hegemonic worlds is actually providing occasions for counter-hegemonic resistance.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 26th, 2013

      How does modding then differ from the interpretive activities that Jan Radway discusses in Reading the Romance? Here again, I think a clearer definition of modding would help — aren’t you describing what women have always had to do when they encounter textual worlds that are hostile to them? It would also strengthen your argument to cite some of the rich feminist work on these issues in game studies: Mia Consalvo, T.L. Taylor, the essays in Beyond Barbie and Mortal Kombat.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 26th, 2013

      This paragraph underscores some of the definitional problems I’ve noted throughout: if articles, blogs, interviews, are all PPNM, then what isn’t? In addition, Sarkeesian in particular is creating a critique of videogames as a genre — she’s not modifying “the narrative of the game.”

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 26th, 2013

      There is so much that is rich and provocative in this essay and I’m excited about the revisions. Some concluding suggestions for revisions:

      1. Reconsider your use of PPNM. I think it would be worthwhile to situate these practices within a tradition of feminist critique, but then also focus on the rich potential of online environments to truly “mod” existing narratives and share the products of our interpretive labor. So acknowledge that these critiques have long existed in the media practices of women, but then talk about how these practices can be effectively amplified online.

       

      2. You don’t cite the rich body of scholarship that already exists in feminist game studies. Check out Lisa Nakamura and Mia Consalvo’s pieces in the first issue of Ada, as well as their rich bodies of work — see T.L. Taylor’s wonderful work on gender and MMOs and Nina Huntemann’s piece in FLOW on gender and labor in the videogame industry.

      3. If you’re going to start with the Princess, it might be good to say more about why being a Princess sucks (aside from possible wardrobe perks). This would be an interesting theme to run throughout the essay as well — Sarkeesian, Hepler, and their feminist supporters don’t need to be saved — they’re doing it for themselves. One of the benefits of the online practices you describe is that we can protect ourselves, to an extent and degree not yet possible IRL. And that’s worth celebrating.

       

      Comment by daramurray on March 3rd, 2013

      Paragraph 1, line 4 — need “as” before “damsels in distress”

      Paragraph 1, line 5 — need comma in between “later” and “little”

      Paragraph 1, line 6 — need comma after “non-existent”

      Paragraph 1, line 7 — need comma after “heroine”

      Paragraph 1, line 7 — use of “cast” is repetitive  (used earlier in line 4, and then also in line 8)

      Paragraph 1, line 7/8 — better to say “to be gazed upon and controlled by…”

       

       

      Comment by daramurray on March 3rd, 2013

      What does “modded post-play for feminist purposes” mean? The sentence is very dense, it would be great to break it up for clarity. I would also appreciate attention given to tease out what “feminist purposes (intentionally and unintentionally)” means in the context of your research. This first sentence stresses “for feminist purposes,” but that focus does not seem to carry through the rest of the paragraph.

      Comment by daramurray on March 3rd, 2013

      Paragraph 3, line 3 — add “that” in between “ways” and “the”

      Paragraph 3, line 5 — add “that” in between “modding” and “focus”

       

      Comment by daramurray on March 3rd, 2013

      Similar to my comments in paragraph 2, I’d appreciate more specificity about the relationship between your research and “feminist purposes” in this paragraph. You seem to be pointing to it through language like “challenge the norms,” “positive change in the community” and “creative resistance,” but in what ways are these moves particularly “feminist?”

      Comment by daramurray on March 3rd, 2013

      Repetitive use of “recently” in line 1 and 4

       

      Comment by daramurray on March 3rd, 2013

      Line 1 – “response” should be plural

      Line 2 – “characterize” should be plural

      In what way was Hepler “threatened?” How does her treatment compare/contrast to online communication that targeted Sarkeesian? Also, while Sarkeesian self-identifies as a feminist, does Hepler? Was Hepler trying to effect social change? Or, was she included here just because she is a woman? 

      Comment by daramurray on March 3rd, 2013

      Apologies — my above comment is for paragraph 8

      Comment by daramurray on March 3rd, 2013

      I’m not sure if utilizing Sarkeesian and Hepler’s stories are convincingly leading towards the  argument (which is put forth in par. 2).

      Comment by daramurray on March 3rd, 2013

      Ok, this responds to my query about par. 8 (In what way was Hepler “threatened?”). It may help to rework this paragraph in combination with par. 8 to strengthen your argument.

      Comment by daramurray on March 3rd, 2013

      Writing could use a bit of work here in lines 1-2: “slightly different, “different reactions, “differing impacts”

      Comment by daramurray on March 3rd, 2013

      line 2 – what does “philosophical support” mean — ideological support? Also, the causal relationships advanced in this paragraph would significantly benefit from more examples to bolster the claims.

      Comment by daramurray on March 3rd, 2013

      I’d be wary of making an assumption of this nature about the relationship between Bioware and Hepler — can you cite a source to show this as fact, rather than your own assumption? Also, your last line of this paragraph is very broad — are you speaking about feminist communities within the patriarchal structure here, and making connections with Sarkeesian and Hepler (and suggesting that she is a feminist)? Are you defining Bioware Corp as a “community,” even though many would identify it as part of the patriarchal structure?

      Comment by daramurray on March 3rd, 2013

      line 3 – What does “a feminist bent” mean?

      line 6 — “at the debut” of what?

      Comment by daramurray on March 3rd, 2013

      I’m intrigued by the last sentence of this paragraph — how are the gamers “rewriting Lara’s narrative?” Some examples of the ways in which these revisionist narratives are not just resistant but specifically underscore feminist thought/action would very much enhance your point here.

      Comment by daramurray on March 3rd, 2013

      Line 7 – You note that “change is happening” — is this specifically feminist-driven change, and/or change that benefits women as a collective?

      Comment by daramurray on March 3rd, 2013

      line 6 — what specific “gaps” are you referring to here? What is the scholarly contribution of this piece to “feminist new media theor[y]”? Whose theories are you building on? How does this piece relate to creating the type of change that you speak of in the last sentence of this paragraph?

      Comment by daramurray on March 3rd, 2013

      line 4-5 — unpack — “The female Commander Shephard seems to have nothing that is at her core that is female”

      Comment by daramurray on March 3rd, 2013

      Last sentence — unpack — “who display essentially female qualities”

      Comment by daramurray on March 3rd, 2013

      last line — how are you characterizing “essentially female qualities” in this paper? Same goes for the usage of this phrase in line 1 of par. 24

      Comment by daramurray on March 3rd, 2013

      I don’t understand how “refusing to save the child can become a type of feminist action.” Detailed analysis is necessary here.

      Also, as noted above, you seem to identify a “feminist action,” but then say that a game cannot be labelled as “feminist” or not. What is the difference here in terms of applying labels?

      Comment by daramurray on March 3rd, 2013

      This paragraph, as well as par. 27, seem to be a bit out of sequence, perhaps better suited to the beginning of this paper.

      Comment by daramurray on March 3rd, 2013

      line 1-2 — What “theories of game studies” are you referring to here? It would be great to cite them.

      line 7 — What are “feminist reads?”

       

      Comment by daramurray on March 3rd, 2013

      last line — perhaps better to say “the Other” rather than “Others”

      Comment by daramurray on March 3rd, 2013

      You seem to be speaking quite broadly here — it may be better to be arguing that the opportunity for “choice” in PPNM is specifically related to historically situated meanings/practices of feminism and choice.

      Comment by daramurray on March 3rd, 2013

      I appreciate the central concept that you advance in this paper about how video games can be sites for positive change re: women in many ways. However, I wondered if this was more of a piece by a scholar in game studies rather than a feminist game studies scholar. The approaches towards characterizing feminism/femininity were somewhat troubling at times, as noted in my comments throughout the text. I agree that this piece needs to be more thoroughly positioned in feminist game studies literature, as this foundation would afford as a more nuanced piece as feminist game studies scholarship. Whose work has motivated this paper? Where do you situate this work within feminist game studies? I think that reframing your piece by responding to these questions would greatly enhance it.

      Finally, while the title is compelling, I’m not sure what “Self-Saving Princess” means in light of your article. Threading this notion throughout your paper would be intriguing. This paper holds much promise, and I hope that you continue to work on it.

      Comment by alaynepurdue on April 8th, 2013

      Thanks 🙂

      Comment by alaynepurdue on April 8th, 2013

      Thanks for the wonderful suggestions. All have been corrected.

      Comment by alaynepurdue on April 8th, 2013

      You’re right. We have changed it to passionate in this para, powerful in the other para.

      Comment by alaynepurdue on April 8th, 2013

      I think we have addressed the concerns here in our revised version. We have been very careful to unpack and define and contextualize these terms.

      Comment by alaynepurdue on April 8th, 2013

      We added a paragraph to exemplify the point. Thanks!

      Comment by alaynepurdue on April 8th, 2013

      We have added more concrete definitions throughout the article that hopefully addresses this. And the idea that Sarkeesian is participating in critique was an important point, which obviously we didn’t explain fully. So we added an entire paragraph to address that.

      Comment by alaynepurdue on April 8th, 2013

      We have elaborated significantly on these points in the revision. I really look forward to your response to the final piece, because these comments were invaluable in the reshaping.

      Comment by alaynepurdue on April 8th, 2013

      Thanks for the recommendation. We have included reference to Phillips’ piece that greatly strengthens our argument.

      Comment by alaynepurdue on April 8th, 2013

      We rewrote most of this paragraph. We never meant to say “essential” female qualities. We have re-situated the point. Thank you.

      Comment by alaynepurdue on April 8th, 2013

      We added several paragraphs situating our argument in the feminist work that has influenced our piece. Thank you.

      Comment by alaynepurdue on April 8th, 2013

      We have elaborated on this– focusing on the idea of “maternal” stereotypes. Thank you.

      Comment by alaynepurdue on April 8th, 2013

      We have chosen to stick with “Others” to avoid lumping all minorities together as one “the Other.”

  • Of Headshots and Hugs: Challenging Hypermasculinity through The Walking Dead Play (48 comments)

    • Comment by Radhika Gajjala on January 16th, 2015

       good.

      Comment by Radhika Gajjala on January 16th, 2015

       This para tells us what you mean by intersectional subjectivities – wondering if you need to state some of this in the first para – so we get to see this point right at the beginning – just a suggestion if you chose to take it. 

      Comment by jeremiahfavara on January 21st, 2015

      The introduction does a good job situating the paper within the relevant literature. As a reader, gaining a sense of what the paper will specifically focus on before the start of this paragraph might be helpful.

      Comment by jeremiahfavara on January 21st, 2015

      In discussing intersectional subjectivities I wonder how the role of sexual orientation might be expanded on in the intro, as incompetence with women is noted as an aspect of the geek/jock binary and the influence of sexuality at work in the association between homophobia and hypermasculinity. 

      Comment by jeremiahfavara on January 21st, 2015

      This paragraph does a good job providing background about the two participants focused on. Some further information on why these two participants were the ones focused on could be helpful.  

      Comment by jeremiahfavara on January 21st, 2015

      This paragraph does a great job of pointing out the ways that gameplay in TWD interacts with intersections of race and masculinity.  

      Comment by jeremiahfavara on January 21st, 2015

      The discussion of “social fathering” does a great job detailing gendered enactments in games that move beyond a jock/geek conceptualization. I wonder to what extent success within the game – indicative of technological competence, which is generally associated w/ masculinity – enabled by non-hegemonic constructions of masculinity further complicates the ways masculinity is thought of in gaming? 

      Comment by Nina Huntemann on January 22nd, 2015

      I’m intrigued by the methodology (mirco-ethnography) employed here. Just a point of clarification: When you say you recorded game footage, did you capture only the screen or the two participants playing the game?

      Comment by Nina Huntemann on January 22nd, 2015

      It would be helpful here if you gave an example of an interaction, common term or ritual that demonstrates how gaming is reframed as manly by the community (perhaps from cyberathlete events).

      Comment by Nina Huntemann on January 22nd, 2015

      Just to be clear: the experience you engaged participants in was private, single-player, offline play? Worth saying here, given the great point you raise about pressure to perform gender norms.

      Comment by Nina Huntemann on January 22nd, 2015

       Italicize quote.

      Comment by Nina Huntemann on January 22nd, 2015

      Suggest changing “love for guns” to “love for weapons, etc”. It makes the statement more universal to the types of games WD1 and gamers like him would align with.

      Comment by Nina Huntemann on January 22nd, 2015

      Overall, can you use more of WD2’s reactions while playing in order to demonstrate the contrast? Your micro-ethnography becomes a study of one player, which is useful, to be sure, but perhaps the difference in WD1’s play and his reflections of that play would be clearer if set closer to WD2’s reactions. Any particularly clear differences exhibited by your participants in their initial attitude toward the game that shows the shift WD2 makes as play and his in game decisions progress?

      Comment by Nina Huntemann on January 22nd, 2015

      Italicize journal title. 

      Comment by Nina Huntemann on January 22nd, 2015

      Fix line break in Giddings & Kennedy reference.

      Comment by Nina Huntemann on January 22nd, 2015

      Overall, you three have written a rich and provocative piece that challenges binary assumptions about game play often made both in popular discourse but also in game studies. A particularly useful contribution you make is in emphasizing the shifting attitudes or positions towards a game that players may occupy, suggesting the fluidity of game play styles and experiences. I have just a few global comments, in addition to the paragraph-specific remarks.One issue you need to address more directly is the way the game itself evokes WD1’s relational (instead of combative) strategy through its game mechanics (decision-making scenarios and dialogue). You mention BioShock:Infinite and The Last of Us has fatherhood-themed games that do not evoke non-violence and self-sacrifice like TWD. Add a line or two in para 51 that demonstrates how the game play of those two titles relies on violence and destruction to win (for example, lack of choice to act non-violently, fewer character interactions that carry an influence on gameplay later).Could one argue that WD1 was just doing what needed to be done to win. He figured out the “trick” of appeasing Clem and played accordingly. This might that suggest his changed approach was simply strategic (and not indicative of a shift in gendered play). You mention he took actions in the game that “offered no strategic advantages” (para 49). I want to read more about that and have it discussed sooner.In response to my own comment above: Perhaps it was strategic but that does not undermine the conclusion of the paper. That no matter the motivation, WD1s different approach still demonstrates the potential to unsettle assumptions about gaming and hyper masculinity. In either case, I do think you need to address the potential critique that WD1 was doing nothing more than “playing to win.”

      Comment by Nina Huntemann on January 22nd, 2015

      Sorry, last sentence of my above comment should say: Any particularly clear differences exhibited by your participants in their initial attitude toward the game that shows the shift WD1 makes as play and his in game decisions progress?  

      Comment by Radhika Gajjala on January 29th, 2015

      From the BGSU Review Team:

      Review Team:
      Csenge, Julia, Yannick

      Feedback:
      We liked the general topic of the paper. There is a lot of potential in this paper, but we do have some suggestions for revisions:
      The actual study focuses on black masculinity as enacted through The Walking Dead game. Yet, this topic is not present enough in the literature review. The author needs a stronger theoretical foundation for his argument; his review of literature needs to be extended to give a more comprehensive assessment of black masculinity in gaming communities.
      We also think that including relevant literature related to player types will be beneficial to the author’s argument as well as the paper overall. There are different types of gamer behavior – social gamer, power gamer, explorer, etc. and these could also influence the actions and experiences of the players in such an experiment.
      We suggest that the author provides a stronger contextualization of The Walking Dead game itself. We felt that a comprehensive analysis of the game’s conventions and, with that, its limitations are missing in this paper. The author could also examine the game’s genre background in more detail. Telltale Games focuses on story-based games, and also transmedia storytelling (expanding the world and story of TV shows into games). This could be important to mention for context.
      We suggest that the author provides the reader with a stronger demonstration of the rationale for choosing subjects for the study. It does not become clear as to why the specific two subjects were chosen (other than that the author knew them). Interestingly, the author decided to focus on two African-American players in the study. The author states that one of them identifies as African-American and Native American. Yet, the player’s identification as Native American is not analyzed in the context of the game. We suggest including this identity marker in the analysis.
      In the observation part of the paper, the author almost exclusively writes about the experiences of WD1, but barely includes information related to WD2’s gaming experience. We suggest to include more information of the latter player in order to strengthen the author’s overall argument.
      The author uses the terms masculinity, hypermasculinity, and hegemonic masculinity, but does not provide a clear overview and/or definition of each concept. A strong theoretical differentiation would benefit this paper and strengthen the author’s argument.
      The author bases his argument on the jock/geek binary in the gaming community. The author defines the geek as stereotypical white and middle-class. However, the subjects of his study are both African-American. A stronger explanation of why these subjects fit the jock/geek categories, and how African-American identities complicate this binary, would benefit this project.
      It would also be interesting to see a follow-up on some lasting results of the game. Does WD1 see games differently now, or seek out games he would not have played before? Were his ideas of fatherhood, masculinity, etc. perma

      Comment by maggiemacaulay on February 6th, 2015

       space after Walking Dead

      Comment by maggiemacaulay on February 6th, 2015

      maybe add another sentence to elaborate on the powerlessness of the ‘nerd’. Is he powerless because does not have the same kind of access to hegemonic masculinity afforded to non-nerds?

      Comment by maggiemacaulay on February 6th, 2015

       this is very good. I think you might want to identify at the very beginning that this is an analysis that looks at the intersections of race and gender

      Comment by maggiemacaulay on February 6th, 2015

      is there any reason why TWD and not some other game? Perhaps you could mention what it offers up for exploration and discussion that other games do not.

      Comment by maggiemacaulay on February 6th, 2015

      space after TWD. I see here you explain why TWD is the game you’ve chosen. Even a nod to it earlier on helps guide the reader who may be unfamiliar.

      Comment by maggiemacaulay on February 6th, 2015

      female characters- very interesting!

      Comment by maggiemacaulay on February 6th, 2015

      space after WD2

      Comment by maggiemacaulay on February 6th, 2015

      the gamer strategies re: race and gender are very interesting!

      Comment by maggiemacaulay on February 6th, 2015

      add a space “instance,Walkerdine”this flexibility and possibility for transformation is good, and I think one challenge for feminist STS has been a very homogenous construction of masculinity. I agree with editors who said you should probably tie W2 in more here, as we get description of him but that is it.

      Comment by maggiemacaulay on February 6th, 2015

      Even though I think you’ve provided an extensive discussion of race in the body, might be good to bring it back here again. It seems like your subjects’ positionality has shaped their relationships to games, and that is something worth noting.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 8th, 2015

      Might be worthwhile to emphasize the need to think in terms of masculinities (following Connell), which allows a sense of struggles within this category and important interventions by feminists. 

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 8th, 2015

      It would be good to emphasize that what you’re focusing on is notable and exceptional in two distinct ways: 1. your focus on TWD, which as you go on to point out, is a really unique game; 2. your focus on African American men’s experiences playing this game (since videogame lit really does assume a white male player position). 

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 8th, 2015

      So in a way, your critique of how scholarship looks at masculinity is similar to critiques of the broader gender binary (so maybe thinking about masculinity as a continuum rather than a binary would be helpful). 

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 8th, 2015

      Also worth noting the racial specificity of dominant nerd identities. 

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 8th, 2015

      By framing masculinities in these binary ways, you run the risk of reproducing the binary. Can you provide a more nuanced description of the field of masculinities. 

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 8th, 2015

      Following Maggie’s comment, it’s worth emphasizing that what’s so original about your research is that it doesn’t look at gender as being synonymous with femininity.

      Also, you might break this paragraph up for readability — maybe starting new paragraph with “Building from this work.” 

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 8th, 2015

      You need a transition here. How do you bring these two bodies of lit together? 

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 8th, 2015

      How does engaging in “a Burkean selection and deflection of reality” allow you to avoid the danger you describe? 

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 8th, 2015

      Maybe this note about methodology belongs earlier (c.f. Nina’s question at the start about defining “micro-ethnography”? Along with the attention to race and masculinity, this approach is part of what makes your contribution so original. 

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 8th, 2015

      Could you say something about the institutional context in which this research took place? 

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 8th, 2015

      So they were all playing in the same room? 

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 8th, 2015

      You might say something about what distinguishes TWD from most videogames (of all genres): the black male protagonist which asks players to make choices from his standpoint. 

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 8th, 2015

      The final sentence is interesting to me. In my interviews, I found that white male players often used this as a reason for playing female characters in MMOs. I found it to be a pat response for what were actually more complicated and interesting motivations.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 8th, 2015

      Maybe a more descriptive subheading for this section? 

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 8th, 2015

      Work on this transition — how does it emerge from your previous section? 

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 8th, 2015

       My concerns are similar to Nina’s above — you extrapolate a lot from this single example. I think that it would help to bring in WD2 as per Nina’s suggestion, but also to acknowledge the need for further, more extensive research.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 8th, 2015

      You might also mention how TWD the game diverges from the original TWD narrative, where men are not exactly care-takers. 

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 8th, 2015

       I think you can be more explicit in naming this behavior: Lee protects Clem (in keeping with so many video game narratives in which helpless and hapless girls and women must be protected by men), but he takes care of her and he teaches her how to be a protector in her own right. 

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 8th, 2015

      Break up paragraph for readability? There’s a lot packed into this. I’d also stress the distinction between your methodology and that of more quantitative approaches that don’t account for the nuanced understanding of masculinities you provide in this.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 8th, 2015

       I think the other potential theoretical intervention concerns pedagogy. In part, what happens to WD1 is that he’s given an opportunity — a critical context — in which to reflect on his gaming practices, both because TWD is so unique, but also because of the context that you provide as researchers. Imagine what more courses that explore these issues might be able to do!

  • Hacking Binaries / Hacking Hybrids: Understanding the Black/White Binary as a Socio-technical Practice (47 comments)

    • Comment by hamidtasnuva@gmail.com on September 24th, 2014

      I feel as though this argument could benefit from a more distinct glossing of the terms “binary” and “hybrid,” and how they are being used in opposition to one another. 

      Especially since the “messy” nature of normative binaries are problematized below (Hudogledog). Even if these binaries should subsequently made (understood as) theoretically hybrid, some clarity may help explicate the process of hacking. 

      Comment by Bryce Peake on September 24th, 2014

      As I understand it,  you are making a really smart and exciting intervention in feminist technology (and some ways science) studies using metaphorical hackings of theory. Beginning the piece with the “poor door” as the sociotechnical manifestation of a race that is itself reproductive of race as the technology for itself is very interesting. Unlike this example, though, the rest of the paper loses this empirical grounding; in some spaces, it seems that this grounding would make the connection between STS theories that poorly examine race, and your interventions/hacking with CRT. 

      Comment by Bryce Peake on September 24th, 2014

       At this point, I’m excited about the intervention. I feel like I’m approaching your core argument, because of the way you signal it with your past research. But then you never tell me exactly what you’re doing in the paper – just what you have done. Could you clear this section up for me so I know exactly what argument I should be reading for as I embark on Theory and Method with you? 

      Comment by hamidtasnuva@gmail.com on September 24th, 2014

      I feel as though the leap from “race as a tool” and “STS as a strategy” requires a bit more unpacking. As it stands, I’m not fully grasping the way in which the metaphorical conceptualization of race as phenomenologically and constitutively technological (tool) can be intervened upon by the material scholarship of STS. This is a really fascinating idea — I’d like to hear more. 

      Comment by Bryce Peake on September 24th, 2014

      I think this is great, but can you ground it in something empirical? Otherwise, I worry that it reproduces the insufficiently materialist biases of STS — in the sense that they ignore the very violent relations of force that accompany the techniques/technologies of racism. Here you present a great way of theorizing differences as such, but I’m not convinced that your theory of binaries/hacking adds anything that the political work of Nakamura, Chun, and Hong have already done.

      Comment by hamidtasnuva@gmail.com on September 24th, 2014

      These are strong examples of the ways in which, despite the hybrid tensions in racial identity, there are structural forces continually attempting to create cleavages and ‘binar-ize’ us. I am concerned, however, that they don’t tap into the conversation about race specifically. The conversation about race as explicated here can be replaced with a conversation about gender or a conversation about [insert A/B difference here]. How can your theoretic interventions be used to unpack race?

      Comment by hamidtasnuva@gmail.com on September 24th, 2014

      I would love to hear more about the ways in which you have successfully achieved these hacks. 

      Comment by hamidtasnuva@gmail.com on September 24th, 2014

      I’m not sure what “race is socially constructed” is doing for your argument, especially if STS is the intervening strategy. 

      Comment by Radhika Gajjala on September 27th, 2014

       I’m going to generally agree with Bryce above.At this time – based on a quick first look – I’m going register my own excitement at the effort first of all. I hope to re-read this a few times and provide some concrete suggestions.

      Comment by mel_hogan on September 29th, 2014

      Great promise!I’d reword the first sentence because it gets a bit stuck at “..and activist as well as in the practice of everyday life.” I’m wondering if the first sentence is even necessary? The second sentence explains clearly what is intended by binaries and hybrids.

      Comment by mel_hogan on September 29th, 2014

      This is a great set up. Intrigued as to what the other developments of this kind are…

      Comment by mel_hogan on September 29th, 2014

       Not sure race, class, gender etc are “personal characteristics”?

      Comment by mel_hogan on September 29th, 2014

      Unlike the other reviewer, I read these examples as being specifically about race. I think that race isn’t a standalone category however, so as a category it’ll always be in conversation with other power dynamics. I haven’t read past this point yet but these example seem to me to be setting something up, something to consider in relation to the workings of power and binaries more generally….   

      Comment by mel_hogan on September 29th, 2014

      I find this example (of the poor door) very intriguing and would like to know more about it — sounds like it’s a really good ‘story’ to talk through the black/white binary, maybe in relation to the personal anecdotes, but it’s not fully explored in this piece… is there a way to explore its significance a little more in the context of this piece? 

      Comment by Radhika Gajjala on September 30th, 2014

      ” The constant invoking of the hybrid as a stand -in for the complexity, the mess and the complications of everyday life has itself led to a reification that requires hacking of its own.”

      Good point.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on October 9th, 2014

       I find myself worrying about the language of hacking — having a kind of “you can’t dismantle the Master’s house using the hacker’s tools” moment and wondering how a practice constructed, wielded, practiced by privileged white men can help us challenge the binaries you list. I don’t have a good answer to this — Fembot has been sponsoring hack-a-thons, after all. But I do think we need to have be self-reflexive about the ways in which conceptual apparatuses can shape our approaches as intellectual and activists.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on October 9th, 2014

       Can you cite this earlier research?

      Comment by Carol Stabile on October 9th, 2014

      I’m not totally convinced by this example, which seems pretty human-centered. A leash is a mechanism of control used by humans. For good or ill, a leash is intended to create social order — we don’t leash humans (well, sometimes toddlers, but those leashes often elicit raised eyebrows) and leashing, yoking, and otherwise seeking to control humans is rightly understood as an act of domination. Maybe what one person situated in one location sees as a communicative moment can be experienced by the person on the end of the communicative leash as an act of domination? 

      Comment by Carol Stabile on October 9th, 2014

      Can you say more about these methodologies? Or delete if you’re not going to address them in more detail. 

      Comment by Carol Stabile on October 9th, 2014

      Your list isn’t exclusively made up of social scientists. It seems to me that some of the most creative work is being done (not surprisingly, given disciplinary constraints) by people in the arts and humanities. Can you say more about the conditions in which such “hands-on creation of artefacts that defy binary categories” is taking place?

      Comment by Carol Stabile on October 9th, 2014

      I’d like to see more of an explanation/definition of both hacking and hybridity as part of the framework of this contribution. How, for example, is hacking a methodology? You make a strong case for the theoretical benefits of hacking in paragraph 8, but hacking as method is more elusive. 

      Comment by brittneycooper on October 13th, 2014

      I would say that race, class, gender, are indeed personal characteristics. They are not only that, and of course as this paragraph notes they are part of larger socio-technical systems.  

      Comment by brittneycooper on October 13th, 2014

      Part of the challenge of “inhabiting” the hack so to speak is about recognizing that the ability to claim expertise and wield these tools is a hack. Moreover, I don’t know that we should assume that technical tools are the “property” of “masters.” Since women and people of color and trans people have participated from the beginning in developing, computers, the internet and social networking.  

      Comment by brittneycooper on October 13th, 2014

      Yes, I would like to hear more about “race as tool.” And then that does bring me to a concern over Carol’s earlier point about whether “race” conceptualized as “tool” becomes the master’s tool.  

      Comment by brittneycooper on October 13th, 2014

      What does this hybrid configuration make possible in terms of the hack here? 

      Comment by brittneycooper on October 13th, 2014

      I would echo Carol here. In the proceeding few paragraphs, I’m looking for an explication of an argument about how these proliferating hybrids act as hacks on the racial binary, or lead us toward a broad theory of what these kinds of interventions might offer. 

      Comment by mrhee on October 18th, 2014

      Great opening to the essay, may be productive to be specific about the statistics of racial background of the residents in affordable housing, either in essay or in notes section. 

      Comment by mrhee on October 18th, 2014

       really appreciate the engagement with STS and new media studies in this framework. suggest to include a definition of STS that is utulized and how it can “hack” hybrids. ie many strains of STS

      Comment by mrhee on October 18th, 2014

      Also agree it may be useful to term hybrids opposed to binary as utilized in this text  

      Comment by mrhee on October 18th, 2014

      I appreciate the voice of this essay and the ability to co-author together, the voice is very compelling throughout the essay.  

      Comment by mrhee on October 18th, 2014

       I think those familiar with Chun’s essay will understand the move as STS given her inclusion of STS within the piece, but for readers engaging with this work, it may be good to unpack a bit more Coleman and Chun’s intersectional work with new media + STS. This may be alloyed with an inclusion or brief description of STS (or feminist STS) and how it differs from new media. I really appreciate this discussion of binaries here. 

      Comment by mrhee on October 18th, 2014

      also note that feminist STS scholars have grappled with race, Charis Thompson, Jenny Reardon, Rachel Lee for example, so then it becomes important on how to distinguish the feminist interventions in new media versus STS. What does STS theory brings to a feminist new media studies critique?  

      Comment by mrhee on October 18th, 2014

      appreciate the hacking that happens with hybrids throughout the essay.  

      Comment by mrhee on October 18th, 2014

       This is an interesting example, but would like more elaboration or connection to the issues of gender/race divides that have been brought up prior. the politics of dogs also evoke racial denigrating stereotypes and denigrating characteristics of women too. Would love more complication here, which is also why STS should be defined as not all STS is anti-racist & feminist in its aims. 

      Comment by mrhee on October 18th, 2014

       Need citations and would be really interesting to have a video of the Hudgedog included, or a photo. Is there a cybernectic example that could also help the movement forward. Agree with Carol in which how does this example break down binaries into hybrid, or does it reify the hierarchical relations between human & animals? Thinking of Kelly Oliver’s Animal Lessons and Harlan Weaver’s work on dogs and Haraway on dogs. 

      Comment by mrhee on October 18th, 2014

      again this is an interesting example but would like more connection to the description and theorization of gender, race, and women that was brought up in the beginning of the essay.  

      Comment by mrhee on October 18th, 2014

      Needs more elaboration on this point by McPherson and how it connects to overall argument on hybrid/hacking.  

      Comment by mrhee on October 18th, 2014

      are racial beings considered human? are women considered human? may be critical to place in conversation this analysis of Michael’s work and the work cited earlier by Coleman and Chun 

      Comment by mrhee on October 18th, 2014

      It seems to move quickly into a discussion of hybrid methods, this seems important especially at the beginning of the essay, you both cite your interdisciplinary methods. But this paragraph seems to come out and may need a sub heading to situate the new topic from the reading of Michael and STS.  

      Comment by mrhee on October 18th, 2014

      appreciate this movement very much. would be more compelling if previous paragraphs were reorganized to lead to this point explicitly. 

      Comment by mrhee on October 18th, 2014

      appreciate this real life example of racial binaries via census  

      Comment by mrhee on October 18th, 2014

      Be specific about who he is, your husband? May want to include topic sentence that is more apt for the paragraph description.  

      Comment by mrhee on October 18th, 2014

      I found these two personal narrative very powerful and poignant in your essay. Thank you for sharing and sheds light on your point abt structural binaries.  

      Comment by mrhee on October 18th, 2014

      This is a compelling example, but almost seems misplaced at this point of the essay. Wonder if you can include in the beginning of the essay to set up the contradictions of the Black white binary explores within personal and contemporary examples.  

      Comment by mrhee on October 18th, 2014

      appreciate this paragraph, would love more elaboration on this point.  

      Comment by mrhee on October 18th, 2014

      I like this discussion very much, but seems a bit misplaced. May be good to rethink organization of the essay to help flow and framework.  

      Comment by mrhee on October 18th, 2014

      This shoud come near the introduction of the paper.  

  • Daddy Issues: Constructions of Fatherhood in The Last of Us and BioShock Infinite (46 comments)

    • Comment by carolyn.elerding@gmail.com on February 2nd, 2016

      The text is so clean, organized, and well-reasoned that my only comments are of a very broad nature.

      First, I’m very glad to have read this contribution, not least because I think it exemplifies some exciting possibilities for feminist masculinity studies of gaming.

      Next, I wish to share an impression that I hoped would diminish as I read the article but did not. The phrase “daddy issues” is quite refractory for this reader. I think what puts me off is the way in which that phrase gets used to shame survivors of domestic and child abuse. So, seeing it in the title, despite the savvy latter portion, made me wonder if the article I was about to read was as well-informed by feminist theory as I would expect in the context of this journal. Obviously, you are transvaluing the phrase, but it was distracting for me to have to wait for an explanation of how and to what purpose. As I read, my confidence in your analysis was quickly established and kept growing. However, I kept waiting for clarification of the way in which you were using the phrase “daddy issues,” because it had shocked me. Even by the end of the section with “daddy issues” in its subtitle, I still felt that your deployment of the term was left unexplained. In short, I would suggest exploring other possibilities, since the catchiness and cleverness is, for some readers, outweighed by potential misinterpretations. Alternatively, if you were to keep the phrase, it would be helpful to develop its significance very early in the article.

      Similarly, the strong engagement with feminist politics that you promise in the abstract should subtend the analysis throughout, and I think that displaying your theoretical commitments early on would help with that. Leaving it to the end sends a contradictory message, despite the clarity and thoughtfulness of your discussion.

      I look forward to reading more of your work!

      Carolyn

      Comment by Gerald Voorhees on February 9th, 2016

      Hi Carolyn,

      I had a discussion with a couple colleagues about the title and ultimately left it as you see it based on their feedback, which amounted to ‘we know what you’re trying to do.’ I appreciate hearing your reading of the title and will eliminate the phrase “daddy issues” from the title and the text.

      Gerald

      Comment by Carina Assunção on February 14th, 2016

      I think this may be too short, maybe adding a sentence regarding the methods by which the comparison is made would be helpful to the reader

      Comment by Carina Assunção on February 16th, 2016

      what empirical evidence? would be important to see some examples given by the critics

      Comment by Carina Assunção on February 16th, 2016

      very good introductory paragraph

      Comment by Carina Assunção on February 16th, 2016

      [However, the practices of fatherhood in The Last of Us and BSi differ dramatically in regard to the amount of control the fathers exercise over their daughters, the degree to which fathers are expected to share consubstantiality with their daughters, and the extent to which the daughter figures are positioned as sexual objects. ]

      The Last of Us=shortened

      Comment by Carina Assunção on February 16th, 2016

      [troubling ] I just don’t like this term as it sounds too biased. I think this sort of conclusion should feature near the end of the article. you are exposing the facts you are going to analyze here. shouldn’t be leading the reader to a specific conclusion.

      Comment by Carina Assunção on February 16th, 2016

      [Ultimately, I argue that TLoU advances a construct of fatherhood that is paternal but not patriarchal and is thus less bound up in the pathologies of hegemonic masculinity and less toxic to a feminist, social justice framework. ]

       

      again i think this paragraph should tell us what  you will be analyzing for each game (what kind of fatherhood construct they have, are they paternal or patriarchal, are they using hegemonic masculinity)

      Comment by Carina Assunção on February 16th, 2016

      are you drawing from any theories in parenting?

      Comment by Carina Assunção on February 16th, 2016

      very interesting review of the lit

      Comment by Carina Assunção on February 16th, 2016

      as a general rule, sentences should not be a sole paragraph

      Comment by Carina Assunção on February 17th, 2016

      I think this is reading a bit too much into the game narrative. The main character is not made to care about the “daughter” because the narrative serves the central plot, to advance the gameplay.

      Comment by Carina Assunção on February 17th, 2016

      reference?

      Comment by Carina Assunção on February 17th, 2016

      delete “an” ?

      Comment by Carina Assunção on February 17th, 2016

      I quite liked the catchiness in the title however I fully agree with Carolyn in that it should either be explained why you decided to use it or just remove it from the title altogether

      Comment by Carina Assunção on February 17th, 2016

      Overall I really liked the article, I think it’s very well written however there were a few areas where some more detail could have been discussed. To counter that, some of the detail from the games could have been left out.

      In addition, I think it would be interesting to see a paragraph regarding the specificity of fatherhood to female daughters, which is the case of both games you analyze.

      Comment by Tara Keegan on February 29th, 2016

      Fascinating topic. Does this phenomenon have a counterpoint in mother figures? Or does this come out of recasting male protagonists?

      Comment by Tara Keegan on February 29th, 2016

      Last sentence — grammar: “…not only re-centers the male lead, but also encourages players…”

      Comment by Tara Keegan on February 29th, 2016

      What is “this public discourse” — the games, or the criticisms? If it’s the games, I’m not sure “discourse” is the best word. If it’s the criticisms, that seems more academic/scholarly than public. I would also recommend reversing your clauses in the last sentence of this paragraph, but your argument is excellently articulated and I’ve appreciated the succinct opening to your article.

      Comment by Tara Keegan on February 29th, 2016

      It seems as though there are daughters in both games you’re going to examine, but you haven’t stated that explicitly.

      Comment by Tara Keegan on February 29th, 2016

      I like this single sentence as a transition. “Totality” is a strong word to end on.

      Comment by Tara Keegan on February 29th, 2016

      What does the “toxic state of game culture” include?

      Comment by Tara Keegan on February 29th, 2016

      Should be “manifestations” (line 3)

      Comment by Tara Keegan on February 29th, 2016

      I’m not convinced that this should be its own paragraph, especially since it is followed by a rhetorical question that moves the reader away from the example of The Walking Dead.

      Comment by Tara Keegan on February 29th, 2016

      There is a misplaced modifier in the first sentence. After the first clause, you could instead write “BSi requires players to interact…” or something like that, so BSi responds to your modifying clause that you open the sentence with and you can eliminate the “in,” which to me, feels slightly awkward.

      Comment by Tara Keegan on February 29th, 2016

      The “them” in the second to last sentence of this paragraph is slightly ambiguous.

      Comment by Tara Keegan on February 29th, 2016

      Excellent paragraph.

      Comment by Tara Keegan on February 29th, 2016

      Suggestion: “…provide care for their fathers.”

      Comment by Tara Keegan on February 29th, 2016

      Is this a theme that other scholars have explored? (The redemption narrative)

      Comment by Tara Keegan on February 29th, 2016

      I like this engagement with Aarseth and think that you argue your standpoint convincingly.

      Comment by Tara Keegan on February 29th, 2016

      I find the “of this” in the second to last sentence a bit ambiguous and unnecessary. Could you say instead, “David and his men are cannibals, and his inhumanity is repeatedly…”?

      Comment by Tara Keegan on February 29th, 2016

      “more fully participate in social, civic….”

      Comment by Tara Keegan on February 29th, 2016

      I made an earlier comment about the question of mothers. It might warrant bringing up the concept earlier than the last paragraph and spelling out the connection to your argument and the implications of a mother figure more clearly.

       

      Excellent article.

      Comment by Kishonna Gray on March 5th, 2016

      Great analysis here!

      Comment by Kishonna Gray on March 5th, 2016

      Great analysis here! I do feel that your position could be dissected a bit to demonstrate the current contribution to the public discussion esp using these two games. they are compelling and great examples but lend the reader a hand and unpack it earlier.

      Comment by Kishonna Gray on March 5th, 2016

      I second the question posed by Carina.  It could help make sense of the popular culture trends emerging with dads (praising dads in particular).  Not sure if it is necessary but may be useful to note the continuing discussions around the daddy/daughter pendulum..think this contribution reveals the importance of this issue to gaming

      Comment by Kishonna Gray on March 5th, 2016

      The sentence isn’t necessary for me….

      Comment by Kishonna Gray on March 5th, 2016

      As Tara is alluding to….give us a sense of the toxicity of gaming culture. its directly relevant to your discussions on hegemonic/militarized masculinity.

      Comment by Kishonna Gray on March 5th, 2016

      My familiarity with these games are limited..but i do wonder about other in-game factors that influence their parenting styles.  Does class and social background influence character development and story line in any way? I ask only because you bring up Lee from Walking Dead.  It has me thinking about marginalized masculinities that sometimes over compensate to counter public narratives/discourse about poor parenting, parents of color, etc.  Also thinking about resistant masculinity.  Not sure if these themes could help support your arguments but worth considering since you incorporate feminist critiques.

       

      Comment by Gerald Voorhees on March 11th, 2016

      It doesn’t, unfortunately. I’ve added a footnote to this effect.

      Comment by Gerald Voorhees on March 11th, 2016

      I’ve tried to clarify that the public discourse is the writing in the media and gaming magazines and website, as distinct from the academic discourse on masculinity in game studies.

      Comment by Gerald Voorhees on March 11th, 2016

      For better or worse, she is also talking about BioShock Infinite and The Last of Us. I’ve decided to alter the phrase “empirical evidence” rather that introduce that fact in order to avoid potential confusion.

      Comment by Gerald Voorhees on March 11th, 2016

      This, I think, is a disciplinary difference. I’ve always been trained to treat my introduction much like my conclusion: it should be written last with the full benefit of hindsight about what the analysis will reveal.

      Comment by Gerald Voorhees on March 11th, 2016

      This paragraph was intended to do just what you have asked for with the sentence “However, the practices of fatherhood in The Last of Us and BSi differ dramatically in regard to the amount of control the fathers exercise over their daughters, the degree to which fathers are expected to share consubstantiality with their daughters, and the extent to which the daughter figures are positioned as sexual objects.” I have tried to clarify this.

      Comment by Gerald Voorhees on March 15th, 2016

      I’ve added a footnote to the very first paragraph discussing the absence of mother figures.

      Comment by Gerald Voorhees on March 15th, 2016

      I’ve added three sentences to paragraph 16, the 1 sentence paragraph you commented on above, talking about the role of race/whiteness in the construction of the characters discussed in this article.

  • Sex Hacker: Configuring Asian Women in the Age of Digital Penetration (45 comments)

    • Comment by Carol Stabile on September 24th, 2014

      The term “cracker” is preferable to? Also, I’m not sure that Dominguez is the father of hacktivisim (might cite someone other than him to support this claim). Could you also say more about how hacking offers an alternative mode of expression, particularly given the homogeneity of hacker communities (at least hacker communities as I understand them)?

      Comment by Carol Stabile on September 24th, 2014

       Can you help readers follow the transition between hackers and code (e.g. the transition from the argument you make in para 6 and this paragraph)? Also, I don’t believe that hacking is a sexual innuendo — it’s certainly a violent one. Your interpretation of the figure of the hacker is interesting, but it’s not clear to me that it’s a broader, cultural reading. Could you introduce other texts to support this reading? 

      Comment by Carol Stabile on September 24th, 2014

      Regarding the first sentence, whose allegorical vocabulary is this? Can you give examples of it? Also, the paragraph seems to shift gears in the long second sentence — can you unpack that sentence? It’s not clear to me how hegemony — by which Antonio Gramsci meant a political system that sought to balance consent and coercion — relates to the argument you’re making about digital penetration. Maybe break the sentence down into smaller units, which might allow for more synthesis? 

      Comment by Carol Stabile on September 24th, 2014

       Can you say what the electronics manufacturing industry is an example of? I’m assuming that it’s White male capitalist supremacy, but a stronger transition would help.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on September 24th, 2014

       It seems to me that the first ten paragraphs are a set up for your argument about how sex hackers turn “objectification into an advantage.” This set up would be more effective, I think, if you defined hacking, then specified the intervention into and/or appropriation of hacking you argue is characteristic about the sex hackers you’re focusing on.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on September 24th, 2014

      It’s not clear to me how selling secrets to the highest bidder indicates more than individualism or the aspects you name of the world hivemind. Can you unpack these ideas, perhaps grounding them in examples?

      Comment by Carol Stabile on September 24th, 2014

      Here again, this paragraph would be stronger if you could provide support for the claims you make. Can you give specific instances in which hackers record globally trafficked sex codes? Can you provide examples of how they undermine “the old boy’s club of hackers”? How does the rich symbolism of the Chinese sex hacker provide “a polysemous association tha reconfigures our binary sensibilities.” Ada’s readership is interdisciplinary and wide-ranging and providing clear examples that support your analysis and citations would offer a more compelling case.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on September 24th, 2014

      There’s an interesting shift in tone and direction here. How does this section build off your previous points about sex hackers?  

      Comment by Carol Stabile on September 24th, 2014

       How is Leung a sex hacker? Perhaps it would be helpful to define this at the start of the article. I’d also like to see more discussion about agency and structure. Is playing the game better than the game masters necessarily resistant, beyond individual pleasure or gain?

      Comment by Carol Stabile on September 24th, 2014

      This section needs to be better integrated into your broader argument. I still find Leung to be an unlikely sex hacker. I’m willing to be convinced, but you need to better move me through the analysis, providing transitions and unpacking your points along the way. For example, you conclude by saying that “the borders of national chauvinism had been thoroughly breached,” but I just don’t see how.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on September 24th, 2014

       In the last sentence of this paragraph, you make a statement about the “nonce of the Asian woman,” but you don’t offer any evidence or argument beyond your own particular reading of this. I would feel much more comfortable about assertions like this (as I’ve noted throughout) if there was support for this interpretation beyond the statement. How does Tian illustrate this? How does Leung illustrate this? 

      Comment by Carol Stabile on September 24th, 2014

      The first sentence of the final paragraph strikes me as a terrific way to set up this paper when you revise it. As I understand your argument, you argue that the figure of the Asian female sex hacker disrupts the logic of 21st century capitalism. As you revise, it would be helpful to break what is essentially a succinct thesis statement into its constituent elements, providing clear definitions of a) hacking and the Asian female sex hacker’s relationship to hacking; b) the logic of 21st century capitalism that the sex hacker disrupts (this is crucial — I don’t see how or what the sex hacker is disrupting in this paper, mainly because I don’t know how you understand the structures against which she is pushing); and c) the political/aesthetic implications of that. 

      Comment by Carol Stabile on September 24th, 2014

      Footnote 29 is blank. 

      Comment by rgjosep@bgsu.edu on October 15th, 2014

      This is the most intriguing section of your paper.  I would love to see a more explicit connection to  online fetishization of Asian women and their embraced identity within the hacker community.

      Comment by rgjosep@bgsu.edu on October 15th, 2014

       I feel like there needs to be a clarification of the title in relation to the content discussed in this paper. The title is Sex Hacker: configuring Asian women in the age of digital penetration, yet only a small part of the article (Paragraph 10-12) talks about female hackers.  If this is the title, I would expect the majority of the paper to focus on hacker culture and how women fit into that culture.

      Comment by rgjosep@bgsu.edu on October 15th, 2014

       The abstract and title talk about Asian women.  Other than the Chinese example of Xiao Tian and Katarina Leung, no other Asian backgrounds are discussed. You need to either make the case for how Chinese women are representative of other Asian women (problematic in itself) or include other examples utilizing other Asian women. If Chinese women are the focus of the article, then the title abstract should reflect this specificity and remove the generalization that Chinese women equal all Asian women. 

      Comment by rgjosep@bgsu.edu on October 15th, 2014

       There is a disconnect between the section “Configuring the Performing of Hacking” and “The Sexual Technology of Parlor Maid.”  If the article is about hacking culture and technology, the Parlor Maid section does not fit.  If the article is about the power dynamics and agency of Chinese women, then a connection of the two sections can be made, but there needs to be a clarification of that in the introduction, abstract and title that the women are taking power from a male dominated arena, using their perceived inferiority to their advantage. This disconnect makes it seem like each section is the start to an individual article.

      Comment by rgjosep@bgsu.edu on October 15th, 2014

       Your Introduction offers a lot social content for the digital culture, but it does not thoroughly introduce the paper topic. Try to make a connection more clear with the following two examples:You give some historical context on the anti-Chinese sentiment in the late 19th century, but you do not provide current examples of this same sentiment.  It is not clear why the idea of “yellow peril” and “coolies” are relevant to this discussion.  The 2nd paragraph of the introduction (paragraph 4) reads like the article is going to be a discussion of the sexual nature of hacker culture and women’s movement in that culture. If this is what the article is about, the section on the Parlor Maid only tangentially fits into the discussion. There is a need to clarify what the thesis is and what you are arguing in this article. The coda offers some of what you were trying to argue and does a better job of incorporating both sections of the article that is missing from the introduction.  

      Comment by rgjosep@bgsu.edu on October 15th, 2014

      If your premise is that sexism is rampant and that women are utilizing the idea that “girls can’t hack because they are girls,” then you might consider addressing those women who bypass the sexist attitudes by presenting themselves as a gender-neutral or male hacker (similar to women gamers, who face some of similar challenges to female hackers).

      Comment by rgjosep@bgsu.edu on October 15th, 2014

       Here, you try to use Hurricane Katrina as an example of racial binaries, but you don’t give enough detail as to how the black/white binary connects to the Chinese/American binary. As it is now, this passage almost reads as a cute play on words that doesn’t fit into the academic tone of the rest of the article.

      Comment by rgjosep@bgsu.edu on October 15th, 2014

      Also the time jump from to the Clinton era to Katrina in paragraphs 14 and 15 is a little awkward. If this information is meant to be context, it might be better to combine them into one paragraph and clarify their purpose as primarily contextual.

      Comment by rgjosep@bgsu.edu on October 15th, 2014

       The conclusion should be connected more to the argument, which needs to reinforce what you previously argued.  It should not be a place to insert previously-unmentioned theory.  Rather than trying to tie Eve Sedgwick’s queer theory into your argument, use the coda to wrap up your arguments and reinforce how you made your argument. Moving these theories to the introduction and explaining them will make the appearance of the theories in your conclusion more legitimate.

      Comment by brittneycooper on October 15th, 2014

       Rather than taking this as given, I think you present a good argument for why the term “hack” is shot through with sexual and gendered significations that might not be immediately apparent. I would make this *your* argument unless you can cite others who have already said it.

      Comment by mrhee on October 17th, 2014

       This opening reminds me of Leslie Bow’s work on feminism and Asian betrayal. May be useful to examine in your discussion of infiltration: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/7066.html 

      Comment by mrhee on October 17th, 2014

      really strong and evocative prose throughout this essay. appreciate the clarity and style. Im a bit confused as to the connection with the next paragraph 

      Comment by mrhee on October 17th, 2014

      Im a bit confused about the specific cases. Does this apply to the previous case in the introductory paragraph? Or is it different? May want to specify a bit more. The sex hacker figure is fascinating. 

      Comment by mrhee on October 17th, 2014

       I agree with the above comment about the connection, it seems you are talking about the binary between Asian American men and women, but make explicit, or may simply start with your contemporary example of sex hackers. //may be good to place in context Linh Nguyen Tu’s work on Asian women hypersexualization in cyberspace. I think your paper, like her’s, takes on hypersexualization within cyberspace, as an important intervention and differing representation, possible a”hack”?   

      Comment by mrhee on October 17th, 2014

      Very awesome discussion of hacking here

      Comment by mrhee on October 17th, 2014

      this is a really interesting discussion of hacking as sexual, it is a masculine metaphor, but also wonder then of the threat of Asia in terms of hacking ie “I love you” virus discussed in Martin Manalansan’s book on Filipino diaspora and hackers? The threat of Asia hacking into Western computers also complicates this idea of hack/masculine/feminine via race and transnationalism 

      Comment by mrhee on October 17th, 2014

      Need to cite, is this from Haraway? She talks about this as well. But my comment above also speaks to how Asians may be hackers, but a racialized threat to the U.S. I appreciate your discussion of hacking throughout, it’s really provocative and compelling.  

      Comment by mrhee on October 17th, 2014

      Would suggest to stay in conversation with Celine’s Shimizu’s work on hypersexuality and how your analysis of the Internet and sex hacking may differ from her archive and analysis, in terms of utilizing objectification via cyberspace. I think this argument can come earlier on in the article as well. Very compelling and fascinating.  

      Comment by mrhee on October 17th, 2014

      Wow, I love how there are actual sex hackers! Would love to see images of this blog included in the article and a bit more transition to this section. It may be a header that demarcates this new section. I can also see this description as an opening for the piece to get straight into sex hackers.  

      Comment by mrhee on October 17th, 2014

      Would love more specific analysis of her site to help contextualize this a bit more. It def seems vital to place the analysis of China and the threat of China into conversation. What were the secrets and for whom? How might this trouble the China/Us divide?  

      Comment by mrhee on October 17th, 2014

      I also agree with Carol, I find this interesting but distracting from your discussion of sex hackers.  

      Comment by mrhee on October 17th, 2014

      Katrina Leung is another “sex hacker” and feel it would be powerful to place this example closer to the analysis of the teeenage sex hackers website. It would stregnthen argument and really love this second example of power, sex, and complicated agency.  

      Comment by mrhee on October 17th, 2014

      I really love this coda and feel some parts of it would make for a really wonderful part of the introduction. currently, the essay doesn’t go straight into sex hacking and there is a lot of text of setting up. I think going straight into it, and analysis of Tian (perhaps more elaboration to balance with Leung’s) and Leung would be very powerful for your argument.  

      Comment by zdai@bgsu.edu on October 20th, 2014

      “With falsified their identities” should omit “their.” The author can mention the year of the passage of Chinese Exclusion Act. Another reason why Chinese women were excluded is that Chinese men were imported as cheap labor rather than family members. 

      Comment by zdai@bgsu.edu on October 20th, 2014

       In the first sentence, “breach” should be “breaches” or “breached.”

      Comment by zdai@bgsu.edu on October 20th, 2014

      The paragraph argued that hacking evoked pornographic connotations, and that the subjects were males. How “hacking” applied to females needs more elaboration.

      Comment by zdai@bgsu.edu on October 20th, 2014

       This paragraph is very interesting, demonstrating women’s invisibility and contribution to technology development. But it is not closely related to “hacking” discussed in previous paragraph (no. 8).

      Comment by zdai@bgsu.edu on October 20th, 2014

       The author should provide citations for “actor network theory.”

      Comment by zdai@bgsu.edu on October 20th, 2014

       Missing of the space between “House” and “As” in the last two sentences. Typing issues also occurred in other paragraphs.

      Comment by zdai@bgsu.edu on October 20th, 2014

      “We learn not live” should be “We learn not to live”/”We learn that we do no live.”

      Comment by zdai@bgsu.edu on October 20th, 2014

      General comments:I don’t know who are the audiences of the paper. It used many terms such as “Yellow Peril,” “paper son,” “sex machine,” “scattered hegemony,” and “proxy army” without connotations. To help non-expert readers better understand these terms, the author can either provide definitions in the main text or endnotes.

      Comment by mimikhuc on October 20th, 2014

      Very provocative reading, with a lot of potential. Suggestions on the whole:

      Intro needs clearer thesis and roadmap of the essay. Key ideas and how they are going to be related in the essay, and through what texts: Hacking, Asian racialization in global economy, Asian women as “sex hackers”. Overall argument about potentiality of Asian women to disrupt certain normativities needs to be clearly stated here. (It is more clearly stated in Coda.) Map needs to point to how the essay will argue and demonstrate this. 

      Overall structure is good: moving from hacking, to race/sex of hacking, to position of Asian women in global technoculture, to close reading of two figures. However, each section needs development: very provocative and brilliant ideas throughout but not threaded clearly, movement from one idea to the next not explicit enough to the reader. Claims need more substantiation (perhaps through examples or more historical evidence) and then each needs to move clearly to the next. Movement from section to section needs to be made more explicit as well, with more transitions and signposts/reminders.

      Language needs revision –> dense language is at times incredibly precise in its sophistication, but other times opaque in its abstraction. Reader needs more time (and help) between concepts, so prose needs to “stretch out” — breaking up longer sentences, breaking down larger concepts, making more “plain-speak” space between more dense/abstract sentences.

      Lastly, overall argument would be strengthened by more historical grounding and closer reading of texts.  

  • Bina48: Gender, Race, and Queer Artificial Life (45 comments)

    • Comment by Maggie MacAulay on February 3rd, 2016

      Roberts’ point is apt here, and I wonder if it would be worth it to compare the white western middle-class ‘reproductive rights’ movement with ones that seek ‘reproductive justice’ for women of color/Indigenous women in the US/globally.

      Comment by Maggie MacAulay on February 3rd, 2016

      you know, I wonder if it would be worth it to also frame Bina48’s struggle as about citizenship and how citizenship discourses make some people “more human” than others vis-a-vis the state. I also wonder about your use of the term ‘personhood’. Obviously that term tends to be mobilized by the pro-life contingent, but you are also showing that claims to personhood can be made by a wider variety of bodies.

      Comment by Shelleen M. Greene on February 10th, 2016

      Thank you for your comment, Maggie. I greatly appreciate your insight that appeals to citizenship are also appeals to be considered “human.” I think this is an assumption in my argument that I should make more evident, particularly in my reading of Bina48’s trial and the cases I use in support of that reading (Dred Scott, U.S. v. Wong Kim Ark). Certainly, Bina48 attempts to achieve personhood through an appeal to the state.

      I should also engage the literature on abortion cases used in the mock trial. The mock trial did eventually cite Planned Parenthood of Pennsylvania v. Casey (2006), and also draws upon cases for wildlife protection. I was not able to engage these discussions within the limits of this article, but I do include a note to other court cases cited in the mock trial. I hope to expand upon this article, and I would like to engage object-oriented ontology to see what it can offer in terms of another reading of Bina48.

      Comment by Shelleen M. Greene on February 10th, 2016

      Thank you for your comment, Maggie. I greatly appreciate your insight that appeals to citizenship are also appeals to be considered “human.” I think this is an assumption in my argument that I should make more evident, particularly in my reading of Bina48’s trial and the cases I use in support of that reading (Dred Scott, U.S. v. Wong Kim Ark). Certainly, Bina48 attempts to achieve personhood through an appeal to the state.

      I should also engage the literature on abortion cases used in the mock trial. The mock trial did eventually cite Planned Parenthood of Pennsylvania v. Casey (2006), and also draws upon cases for wildlife protection. I was not able to engage these discussions within the limits of this article, but I do include a note to other court cases cited in the mock trial. I hope to expand upon this article, and I would like to engage object-oriented ontology to see what it can offer in terms of another reading of Bina48.

      Comment by Shelleen M. Greene on February 10th, 2016

      Thanks for your comment, Maggie. I think the distinction between reproductive rights and reproductive justice is useful. In this part of the article, I wish to suggest that reproductive technologies (birth control, surrogacy, etc.) do not necessarily offer “freedom,” “choice,” or liberation from the biological body. In an earlier draft of this article, I included a reference to Firestone’s “The Dialectic of Sex,” which offers a similar cautionary note regarding technology.

      Comment by cjones@uscupstate.edu on February 29th, 2016

      I find the “Jacobs/Brent” distracting. Is there a reason to continually call attention to Jacobs’ pseudonym? If not, choosing one or the other will do.

      Comment by cjones@uscupstate.edu on February 29th, 2016

      I’m intrigued by this paragraph and I find myself wanting more here. You seem to be suggesting in this first sentence that it was a biological imperative that caused her to not want to leave her children, but her turmoil is both mental and physical as you point to in the quote at the end of the passage. That she suffers in both ways seems to be an important part of Brent’s struggle to be recognized as more than just a laboring machine viewed as property and not as fully human. I’d like to see you explore her struggle to re/member herself as part of her escape from a system that dismembers and displaces her from location and time, particularly as your next paragraph points to how she exists in a queer time that is neither cyclical-domestic nor linear-national.

      Comment by cjones@uscupstate.edu on February 29th, 2016

      Yes, here too you point to the idea that she is reconstructing her personhood in space and time, but don’t ever quite say it. Developing this would help tie these three paragraphs (26, 27, 28) together and allow you to explore these provocative ideas more fully.

      Comment by cjones@uscupstate.edu on February 29th, 2016

      This is a very interesting interplay between mind, body, and personhood in these two stories. On the one hand, you have Brent who is both mind and body in the space of the garret and seeks to escape so that those two pieces can be fully integrated outside of the system of slavery. In the case of Bina48, you have a figure for whom personhood is not at all dependent upon the integration of body and mind. Indeed, she seeks escape and freedom to determine her own future by disintegrating the connection between consciousness and embodiment.

      Comment by cjones@uscupstate.edu on February 29th, 2016

      I’m having trouble with this idea of Frankenstein’s monster as a metaphor for a pleasurable history of cybernetics. I suppose it’s because of how I’ve understood the relationship between Bina48 and Brent to be one where both are seeking personhood and to escape from systems that limit their humanity and render them monstrous. It may also be that I’m unfamiliar with Freeman’s reading of history as bodily encounters. More explanation could clear this up, but I think the imagery of a being constructed from body parts stolen from graves and the notion of a “shadow” body seem to suggest that Bina48 is not a “real” person, but rather an inferior or even monstrous copy. This seems to undermine your argument that one day the biological body will be one among many forms a “real” consciousness might take.

      Comment by cjones@uscupstate.edu on February 29th, 2016

      I find always find this argument about the category of human as too tainted and therefore something we should abandon compelling, but also one that I find myself resisting. I have many thoughts that I’m not even sure I can organize coherently so I’ll list them.

      1) Yes. Being recognized as human or not does not stop a being from living and desiring. So, no arguments there. Indeed, the ability to define oneself is the basis for most discussion of agency.

      2) But, in the case of liberal humanism, in which the entirety of the civil rights struggle is ensconced, I wonder what it means when those bodies encounter systems of power. For instance, the black African slave, the Muselmann of the concentration camp, and Bina48 are all subject to oppression up to and including death/termination under those systems, regardless of how they define themselves. You seem to be trying to establish agency, but I’m not sure you’ve made a solid case for these examples existing outside and beyond the world of Man in a way that allows them to free themselves from this oppression beyond abstract naming. In order words, the full power of the state is mobilized against these folks because they are not seen as human. They may be able to embrace the notion of not being human and name themselves something else, but how does that stop the machinery of the state from crushing them?

      3) I’m seeing some parallels between the debate around integration and separatism here. Perhaps drawing on some Black nationalist literature might help in thinking through your argument?

      Comment by cjones@uscupstate.edu on February 29th, 2016

      OK. It occurs to me that you may be arguing the notion of human not be abandoned altogether, but rather expanded to incorporate other forms of personhood. If that’s the case, you will want to make that clear.

      Comment by cjones@uscupstate.edu on February 29th, 2016

      This would be a good place for sign-posting to remind the reader about “queer computational logics.”

      Comment by cjones@uscupstate.edu on February 29th, 2016

      I need more explanation here.

      Comment by cjones@uscupstate.edu on February 29th, 2016

      This passage offers many rich ideas, but I need more information and explanation about each of these quotes and how you see them working together.

      Comment by cjones@uscupstate.edu on February 29th, 2016

      Elaborate more on disidentification, counter-identifications and their radical potential as well as how they speak to goal to achieve a broadened definition of humanity or personhood.

      Comment by cjones@uscupstate.edu on February 29th, 2016

      This is a very compelling essay that I have enjoyed reading quite a bit. My main suggestion is to center your argument about expanding the definition of humanity (as it relates to historical struggles for people of color to be taken as human subjects, to the struggles of queer folks…) through sign posting. There are also quite a few places where you briefly point to a theorist without helping the reader understand their work and how precisely it relates to your larger argument. A bit more explanation in those places will help strengthen this essay.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on March 1st, 2016

      You might want to provide this background on the mock trial earlier in the paper. You reference it above and I had to do a good bit of work to figure out what text you were referencing.

      Comment by Shelleen M. Greene on March 2nd, 2016

      Thanks, Carole. I mention the trial in paragraph 11, but I can offer a more detailed discussion of the trial before entering the second section of the paper.

       

      Comment by Shelleen M. Greene on March 3rd, 2016

      Thank you for these initial comments. I think Jacobs/Brett is a bit clunky, but I wanted to place emphasis on the split self (past/future self) I mention in paragraph 12. I think I can mention it once and then use Jacob and Bina48 for the rest of the paper.

      For your second point, I think in this paper I’m trying to think through the relation between embodiment and personhood. To have and to own one’s body becomes the basis for making claims to personhood before the state. However, for black women bodily possession has been problematic. The Terasem Movement and Bina48 offer the possibility of disembodiment as a means of escaping the prison of the body. This kind of transcendence is already problematic because it is rooted in Western mind/body dualism.

      I hope to demonstrate in Incidents, that black women have already experienced forms of disembodiment throughout Western modernity. Rather than make claims to a certain mode of the human (“Man”), I posit Weheliye’s habeus viscus and Freedman’s queer time to acknowledge the possibility of Bina48 to subvert, put into question a certain form of the human that has not brought full liberation to subjects who have been marginalized or left outside of this definition of the human (“Man”).

      Comment by Shelleen M. Greene on March 3rd, 2016

      Yes, I think the reconstruction takes place in the future, or with the future self (Jacobs/Brent). However, I wonder if this full re-constitution of self ever really happens…

      Comment by Shelleen M. Greene on March 3rd, 2016

      Yes, this is why I challenge part of Bina48’s mock trial narrative where see seeks to claim personhood in the legal system…her spatial/temporal displacement and partiality are her emancipatory potential.

      Comment by Shelleen M. Greene on March 3rd, 2016

      I think this use of Freeman’s Time Binds needs further discussion, elaboration and more lead in, or perhaps needs to be removed from this iteration of the paper. I think this section makes more sense after I introduce the Alexander Weheliye and the notion of other genres of the human. I want to make an argument for Bina48’s fragmentation and partiality as a genre of the human that challenges “Man” as the only, legitimate form of the human.

      Comment by Shelleen M. Greene on March 3rd, 2016

      If following Weheliye, agency is a problematic term, very much tied to liberal humanism discourses regarding “Man”…so, I’d like to seek another term…not agency, but emancipatory potential that takes place in some future but is operative in the present.

      I’d like to think about the temporal and spatial dimensions of the integrationist/separatist models. I think separatist (“nation time”) posits a future time and place of liberation – within the present.

      Comment by Shelleen M. Greene on March 3rd, 2016

      Yes, I should provide a definition of the term and the source.

      Comment by Shelleen M. Greene on March 3rd, 2016

      Yes, I should provide a definition of “queer computational logics” term and the source.

      Yes, following Weheliye (Hartman, Wynters, etc.), I suggest we need to consider other forms/genres of the human for subjects who have not been allowed into the definition of “Man.”

      Comment by Shelleen M. Greene on March 3rd, 2016

      Paragraph 40 is a quote from Anne Frieberg’s “The Virtual Window.”

      Comment by Shelleen M. Greene on March 3rd, 2016

      Paragraph 40 is a quote from Anne Frieberg’s “The Virtual Window.”

      Comment by Shelleen M. Greene on March 3rd, 2016

      This is a loaded paragraph. Like Freeman’s discussion of the Frankenstein monster, I will need to provide a more comprehensive discussion of Blas and cardenas, and Halberstam’s arguments . I will have to unpack this paragraph. Here, I want to account for the “queerness” of Bina48’s genesis, that her “parents” are transgendered and interracial, and this genesis is the foundation of her “queer computational logics.”

      Comment by Shelleen M. Greene on March 3rd, 2016

      I have a longer discussion of Munoz, and I hope I can expand upon this part of the essay given the word count (5,000). I use Munoz’s concept of dis-identification as a means of identifying Bina48’s fragmentation and discontinuity (in time and space) as a means of countering a certain discourse on the human.

      Comment by Shelleen M. Greene on March 3rd, 2016

      Thank you, Cassandra! Your engaged feedback will help me re-think some structural issues in the essay and refine my arguments concerning Bina48, personhood and the “human.”

      Comment by Shelleen M. Greene on March 17th, 2016

      I’ve changed the sentence: As Dorothy Roberts has argued, while the 20th century reproductive rights movement is seen as a means of liberation for white European women with socioeconomic mobility, black women have a more complicated relation to contraception, surrogacy and reproduction due to histories of slavery, systemic racism, and biopolitical control of black populations in the United States (Roberts, 1997).

       

      To read: As Dorothy Roberts has argued, while the 20th century reproductive rights movement is seen as a means of liberation for white European women with socioeconomic mobility, women marginalized by race and socioeconomics have a more complicated relation to contraception, surrogacy and reproduction due to histories of slavery, systemic racism, and biopolitical control of racialized populations in the United States (Roberts, 1997).

      Comment by Shelleen M. Greene on March 17th, 2016

      I have moved the description of Bina48 v. Exabit Corporation mock trial from paragraph 18 to paragraph 11.

      Paragraph 11 now reads: My interpretation of Bina48’s bodily absence will be informed by a comparative reading of the mock trial transcripts for Bina48 vs. Exabit Corporation (2003; 2005), in which Bina48 escapes from then sues her corporate employer for attempting to turn her off against her will, and the slave narrative Incidents in the Life of a Slave Girl (Harriet Jacobs, 1861, hereafter Incidents). In 2003, prior to Bina48’s physical existence, the Rothblatts presented Bina48 v. Exabit Corporation (2003; 2005) as a case in mock trial at the International Bar Association.  While working as a customer relations representative and moonlighting as a Google Answers Online Researcher, Bina48 became aware of Exabit’s plans to shut her down, dismember her, and repurpose her parts to other machines. Bina48 then flees by transferring her memory files to another Exabit computer mainframe in Florida. I argue that the AI’s mock trial is resonant with the 19th century fugitive slave women’s narrative in that they both manifest an ambivalence between desiring a biological body (embodiment) in order to make claims to personhood and full citizenship, and remaining information or transferable consciousness (disembodiment).

      Comment by Shelleen M. Greene on March 17th, 2016

      Paragraph 18 now reads: With Bina Rothblatt performing the role of Bina48 and Martine Rothblatt serving as her lawyer, the Bina48 v. Exabit mock trial consisted of an ‘injunctive relief’ to prevent the imaginary corporation from turning Bina48 off and thereby ending her life. While working as a customer relations representative and moonlighting as a Google Answers Online Researcher, Bina48 became aware of Exabit’s plans to shut her down, dismember her, and repurpose her parts to other machines. Bina48 then flees by transferring her memory files to another Exabit computer mainframe in Florida. As Bina48’s lawyer, Martine Rothblatt filed an injunction against Exabit to prevent her shutdown. Rothblatt argues that although the property of Exabit, Bina48 has a ‘legal right to maintain an existence’ and Exabit’s action is a form of battery with an ‘intentional infliction of emotional distress for threatening to kill [Bina48]’ (Rothblatt, Amara, 2003).

      Comment by Shelleen M. Greene on March 17th, 2016

      I have added a sentence to paragraph 11 in the hopes of clarifying my argument earlier in the paper: “Ultimately, I argue that rather than technological bodily transcendence, it is Bina48’s partiality, her ability to move between bodily fragmentation to embodiment, from spatial and temporal displacement to coherence — her queer artificial life —  that forms the locus of her emancipatory potential.”

      Comment by Shelleen M. Greene on March 18th, 2016

      I have changed paragraph 32 to read:
      By conveying her narrative through feeling, Bina48 not only makes her appeal as a sentient being, she also makes evident the history of artificial intelligence through a previously unacknowledged sensation of the computer. As Freeman suggests in her reading of Mary Shelley’s Frankenstein, history in the novel can be understood as ‘bodily encounters’ with the past (Freeman 2010, 104-105). To counter historical writing that constructs an ‘objective,’ linear chronology, Freeman posits an ‘erotohistoriography,’ or a queer understanding of history based in feeling and sensation. Freeman writes:
      Erotohistoriography is distinct from the desire for a fully present past, a restoration of bygone times. Erotohistoriography does not write the lost object into the present so much as encounter it already in the present, by treating the present itself as hybrid. And it uses the body as a tool to effect, figure, or perform that encounter. Erotohistoriography admits that contact with historical materials can be precipitated by particular bodily dispositions, and that these connections may elicit bodily responses, even pleasurable ones, that are themselves a form of understanding (Freeman, 2010, 95-96).

      In this sense, Bina48’s trial serves as metaphor for the history of artificial intelligence and the eventual creation of machines that are indistinguishable from humans. Like the various dead members that compose the Frankenstein monster, Bina48’s ‘wonderful sensations’ are memories from her ‘shadow’ body (Bina Rothblatt), of her journeys through networks and the ‘World Wide Web,’ and among her partial and impermanent substrates. Bina48’s various sensations are joined together to offer a history of cybernetics that is felt as pleasurable and anticipates the biological body as one possible mode of embodiment.

      Comment by Shelleen M. Greene on March 18th, 2016

      I acknowledge the limitation of my application of Weheliye’s argument, but maintain that Bina48, as an artificial intelligence, can be read in light of “habeus viscus” and puts forth, if not agency before the state, an emancipatory potential. I add a sentence to paragraph 34:

      While the partiality of Bina48’s queer artificial life does not resolve her struggle to gain legibility before the state, she maintains her emancipatory potential in her temporal and spatial displacement and movement between embodiment and disembodiment.

       

      Comment by Shelleen M. Greene on March 18th, 2016

      I have changed one sentence in paragraph 35 to read:

      While the partiality of Bina48’s queer artificial life does not resolve her struggle to gain legibility before the state, she maintains her emancipatory potential in her temporal and spatial displacement and movement between embodiment and disembodiment.

       

      Comment by Shelleen M. Greene on March 18th, 2016

      Please see the changes to paragraphs 11, 34, and 35. I have also changed a sentence in paragraph 35 to read:

      I would further suggest that Bina48’s ‘enfleshment’ is linked to her queer computational logics, or rather her transgendered, interracial genesis.

      Please disregard comment/change above.

      Comment by Shelleen M. Greene on March 18th, 2016

      Please see changes to paragraph 11, 18, 27, 28, 31, 32, 34, 35

      Comment by Shelleen M. Greene on March 18th, 2016

      I’ve asked the editors to indent this paragraph, to make sure readers know that it is a quote from Friedberg’s Virtual Window.

      Comment by Shelleen M. Greene on March 18th, 2016

      In order to clarify this paragraph, I have added a definition to queer computational logics to paragraph 35 and changed paragraph 41 to read:

      Similarly, Zach Blas and micha cárdenas argue ‘Turing’s life and work reveal that gender is a technology that can be imitated,’ and that Turing’s ‘homosexual desires…inform and help to materially construct the technicity of objects’ (Blas and cárdenas, 2013). In the case of Bina48, gender, sexuality and cross-racial desire inform the construction of the artificial intelligence. In their efforts to move beyond the biological body and to create a ‘world without racism,’ the Rothblatts’ Bina48 is an AI that deploys queer computational logics to offer other possible futures for identity construction (Blas and cárdenas, 2013).

       

      Comment by Shelleen M. Greene on March 18th, 2016

      I have also added a sentence to paragraph 27:. Indeed, Brent’s escape concerns claiming bodily integrity and cohesion in space and time.

      Comment by Shelleen M. Greene on March 19th, 2016

      I have separated paragraph 42 into two paragraphs. While I have not elaborated Munoz’s theory of disidentification, I believe my earlier discussion of Bina48’s partiality provides greater context for my introduction of Munoz at this stage of the essay.

      Comment by Shelleen M. Greene on March 19th, 2016

      Paragraph 42 now reads:

      Bina48’s genesis within neoliberal capitalism remains problematic in terms of an antiracist praxis and I would argue is separate from the radical queer coding and technologies produced by Blas and cárdenas. However, Bina48 can be read as enacting a form of ‘disidentification’ or what Jose Muñoz theorizes as a means by which gay, lesbian and transgender non-white people of color undergo processes of identity formation in predominately white, heteronormative societies. Avoiding arguments that reduce identity to either social construct or biological formation, Munoz argues for partial and ‘counter-identifications’ that allow for the formation of ‘identities-in-difference’ (Munoz, 1999, 7).

       

       

      For Bina48, this disidentification comes in the form of her human drag, her ill-fitting wig, ‘frubber’ skin, wires protruding from her head, and her stilted, uncanny performance of the human that disrupts seamless or ‘proper’ communication. Unlike Toshiba’s human-like and embodied robot hostess ChihiraAico, Bina48 does not always mask her technological roots. The practice of disidentification allows us to redeem the radical potential of Bina48 as a form of queer technology within the liberal universalist paradigm that guides many of the documents and projects of the Terasem Movement. Bina48’s irregular movement is also linked to her discontinuous temporality and spatiality, as she sutures her past (Bina Rothblatt), present (artificial intelligence), and future (immortality). Thus, I argue that Bina48 retains a radical potential for a queer futurity, in which racialized, queer identities are at the forefront of imagining future, alternate forms of humanity.

  • Creating Room For A Singularity of Our Own: Reading Sue Lange's We, Robots (45 comments)

    • Comment by alexislothian on August 26th, 2013

      I think that the movement from “brown-skinned” children to a “black neighborhood” may be worthy of more unpacking. Does the mention of skin color here presume and expose readers’ assumptions of a default whiteness? What different modes of racialization (Latin@/Chican@? South Asian?) can “brown” signal, and why does it seem to map specifically to blackness (to African American cultural production?) here?

      Comment by alexislothian on August 26th, 2013

      The Help, particularly in criticisms of the film version, has been discussed as the narrative of a black maid appropriated by a white writer. Is this relevant to the way that Aibileen Clark relates to Avey? The maids and the robot write and by doing so they redefine themselves as human, and yet the words in both cases were actually penned by someone whose humanity has never been called into question in the way that is being narrated.

      Comment by svint on August 26th, 2013

      Another typo: Germany

      Comment by svint on August 26th, 2013

      This is really a comment on the paragraph above but I couldn’t select it. I wanted to alert you to the typo in “average” in the Lange epigraph.

      Comment by gcanavan on August 27th, 2013

      Le Guin’s retrospective introduction to THE LEFT HAND OF DARKNESS, in which she declares her own experiment with genderlessness a partial failure, might be interesting to revisit in this context.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on September 16th, 2013

      In the second to last sentence, perhaps point out that there appear to be no African or African American speakers. There actually are a number of non-white men. Also, I’m not following the connection between imagery and the conference. Can you elaborate on that a bit?

      Comment by Carol Stabile on September 16th, 2013

      I lose track of your line of inquiry in the paragraphs on Dick (beginning with Charlie Rose). Perhaps you might frame the examples in the paragraphs in terms of your discussion of the Singularity, rather than bringing the Singularity back in at the conclusion of the paragraphs?

      Comment by Carol Stabile on September 16th, 2013

      Can you frame this section in terms of the Singularity? It’s a really interesting discussion of Soyka’s argument, but I’m not sure how the question — is her novella feminist science fiction — connects to the Singularity and your previous sections. Soyka misses more than one point as well — the phrase “Other than the fact that women can be considered a subjugated class” is typical of the kind of anti-feminist discourse on the internet. Not sure you need this to get to your analysis of We, Robots.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on September 16th, 2013

      Not clear on what you mean by “feminist” and “post-feminist” — do you mean “post-gender” in the latter?

      Also, when it comes to challenging sexist language, you might want to cite some of the work of transgendered people, who have been in the forefront of those struggles. Julia Serano comes to mind, but others in the Collective are more knowledgeable in this area.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on September 16th, 2013

      How does Butler relate to Lange? How does Avey transcend both racial and gender categorizations, which are fundamental to the category of “human”? And while I love the idea that complaining is key to humanity, I’d like to see you unpack that. Also, you say that Avey has no gender, but in this paragraph, you refer to her as, well, her.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on September 16th, 2013

      Not sure that The Left Hand of Darkness is about the eradication of gender — can you expand on this a bit? Also, not clear on the link between Tiptree and My Mother the Car (familiar with both of those, but need some help with the connection).

      Comment by Carol Stabile on September 16th, 2013

      Here again, I’m not sure that “post feminism” is the right term.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on September 16th, 2013

      I think the comparison to The Help is problematic  — the black maids don’t even get to write their narratives and the person who does write the narrative is the only one to escape the South. Black feminist critics in particular have argued that The Help is a narrative that uses black women in a conventionally exploitative style to tell the story of a white woman (there’s also the lawsuit that was filed against Stockett by Abilene Cooper — a maid who worked for Stockett’s brother — for stealing her story). So The Help I think raises more problems than you can handle.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on September 19th, 2013
      Comment by alexislothian on September 19th, 2013

      After seeing the collective members’ comments on this piece, my sense is that we need some key revisions before it can be considered ready to publish. Though the first-stage revision helped a lot with this, we still need a clearer throughline so that readers can immediately understand the stakes of the piece and the substance of its argument –– which I take as being that Lange makes a feminist science fiction intervention into the discourse of the Singularity by suggesting that, instead of transcendence, technology’s moment of self-awareness would mire it in the experience of mundane problems and everyday pain, in addition to structural inequality.

      Given that this will be a public online publication, it will also be important to make sure that the connotations of cultural references are as intended — comments show that some of the references in the piece appear quite problematic. This is especially true of the piece’s engagement with race, and I would suggest dialing back heavily on use of pop-culture analogies in this area.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on September 20th, 2013

      In the third sentence, I think you mean that the “this” to refer to monolothic renderings of the Singularlity and not Hayles’ assertion. Perhaps say “like Hayles’ definition, Avey . . . contradicts the fixity of the Singularity” (if that’s what you mean)?

      Comment by Carol Stabile on September 20th, 2013

      Would it be more to the point to say that gender is not included in the discourse about the Singularity? I’m not clear on why feminism would appear in that discourse anyway. Also, in the second to last sentence, you mention going back to the second wave of feminism to insure that “our understanding of the Singularity will be articulated in an inclusive manner.” But the second wave wasn’t particularly inclusive (especially around race and sexuality). Perhaps just stick to the critique of the sexism of the Singularity?

      Comment by Carol Stabile on September 20th, 2013

      The examples in para 11 and 12 are really interesting, but I’d like to see them framed in terms of your broader argument. My main problem with these opening paragraphs (1-16) is that the examples aren’t fully integrated into a line of inquiry that I can follow. It’s rich and interesting material, but there’s a tendency to bury the leads.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on September 20th, 2013

      In terms of this first section (and as I suggest above), it might be helpful to introduce your topic, talk about the androcentrism/sexism of representations of the Singularity, and then move into your discussion of We, Robots. I recommend deleting the language about controlling one’s own image (Dick and Hepburn) unless you’re going to knit it into the fabric of the argument more clearly. I also think that the logical transition is We, Robots as a feminist response to the Singularity (and to Asimov’s I, Robot) and not to the question of whether We, Robots is feminist science fiction.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on September 20th, 2013

      Here again, were you to frame this in terms of the ways in which Lange challenges the Singularity, I think it would be a much more original and significant argument.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on September 20th, 2013

      There are some missing connections in this paragraph. Why does Butler bear mention? Can you provide an example of this? Also, I’m not sure how Avey’s request for a pad and pen is equivalent to Virgil Tibbs’ demand. Can you provide a textual example of Avey’s struggles to “juxtapose language and respect,” because that move isn’t clear to me from the example you offer.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on September 20th, 2013

      Could you offer some textual examples of your points in this, in the shape of direct quotations?

      Comment by Carol Stabile on September 20th, 2013

      What are their Lacanian characteristics? Also, you make a series of claims about the text without providing examples of how she does this.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on September 20th, 2013

      Not all of our readers are going to be familiar with Asimov’s three laws. Perhaps worth providing a link to a definition?

      Comment by Carol Stabile on September 20th, 2013

      But this isn’t about Asimov. Can you bring this in by way of Lange’s critique of the Singularity? That would mean revising what follows so that it makes sense in the context of the broader argument.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on September 20th, 2013

      Not all of the issues’ readers are going to have read Lange’s story. It would be helpful — at the beginning of this piece — to provide a clear plot summary (so that when readers get to this point they understand that Avey is the caretaker for Chit and Dal’s daughter Angelina).

      Comment by Carol Stabile on September 20th, 2013

      How is this relationship between elites and technology true in real life? Probably true in terms of middle class people in the US, but economically disadvantaged people do not have access to technologies. Social media are another thing altogether. Maybe I’m just not understanding your comparison?

      Comment by Carol Stabile on September 20th, 2013

      While I think Alexis’ point is well taken, the text — with its references to “crack” traffic” and “burnt out buildings” — does seem racialized in ways stereotypically evocative of black neighborhoods. I guess the point for me is the pervasiveness of that dystopian view in the science fictional universes of white Americans (e.g. why not Kabul? Or Saigon? Or post-Katrina New Orleans? Or post-Sandy New York?). I’m also not clear on the connection between the analysis of Lange’s text and The Jeffersons, a complicated and contradictory text that wasn’t funny in the same ways for all viewers. I’d recommend deleting those passages unless you’re willing to do more interpretive work with them.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on September 20th, 2013

      I’d really like to see some context/explanation for the Shylock reference. As an online journal, Ada has a responsibility to be clear when it comes to these discussions. Having read your work elsewhere, I have a deeper understanding of this reference. I’m not sure that all our readers will.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on September 20th, 2013

      I’m not sure I agree with this interpretation — can you support these interpretations with specific examples from the text? The move from Frank and Jacobs to humor also makes me uneasy. What are the stakes in conflating these very different histories and examples of oppression? How does humor relate to the narratives you begin with? There are a lot of comparisons in this paragraph, but not enough explanation of them.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on September 20th, 2013

      While the examples in this support the relationship between robots and animals, I’m still a bit uneasy about the comparison with Morrison and slavery. Also not clear on some of the points made in this paragraph, e.g. “”Avey is a ‘we’ in relation to the branded slaves Tony Morrison describes in Beloved.”

      Comment by Carol Stabile on September 20th, 2013

      How does this paragraph relate to your argument about the Singularity? Again, I find the main point of this piece eluding me — why does it matter that Lange shares commonalities with Jonathan Safran Foer?

      Comment by Carol Stabile on September 20th, 2013

      Transition? As I understand your point in this, it’s that Lange’s Regularity invokes histories of pain and suffering that discourses of the Singularity do not (and that the line between Others and “we” is fungible and not static). But that point needs to be more clearly made.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on September 20th, 2013

      Transition? As I understand your point, it’s that Lange’s Regularity invokes histories of pain and suffering that the Singularity does not (and that the line between selves and others is fungible and not static). But that point needs to be more clearly made.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on September 20th, 2013

      Can you quote Avey’s final comment? Also, could you provide more context for your comparisons to th eTin Man and Russ? I’m having a hard time following.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on September 20th, 2013

      Why not just stick to diversity and compassion at the beginning of the first sentence? Also, not clear on how the Hayles’ quotation refers to the first sentence or what follows it? Hayles is talking about an intellectual relationship to technology — a dream about what our relationship might be. How does “Avey dies” relate to that?

      Comment by Carol Stabile on September 20th, 2013

      As I understand this essay, you’re arguing against the monolithic premises of the Singularity and for the vision of the Regularity that Lange has created. Any vision of the human/robot divide needs to account for the historical strictures on the word “human” and the ways in which the universality that follows from the human does not allow us to understand ourselves “as embodied creatures living within and through embodied worlds and embodied worlds.” I think the essay really needs to focus on that central theme, unpacking the specific ways in which Lange’s text illustrates your central points (which are buried in this version) and organizing the material in a way that better reflects your main point(s).

      I’d also suggest that some of the comparisons you make run the risk of falling prey to the very problems you seek to challenge. Comparisons and analogies are helpful, but they can also work to flatten out the complexities of very different histories and experiences of oppression. I wonder if Lange’s own references to “brown” people run a similar risk?

      Comment by Radhika Gajjala on September 20th, 2013

      what’s at stake in recovering the notion of singularity for feminism – perhaps make this stake very explicit to the general reader (since this is an online interdisciplinary publication) right at the beginning – even if it might have been explained later.

      Comment by Radhika Gajjala on September 20th, 2013

      I’m not clear on how the fixed definition is contradicted …and what the significance of that contradiction is – perhaps a  line or so explaination right here is needed?

      Comment by alexislothian on September 21st, 2013

      “  English lacks a pronoun such as Marge Piercy’s “per,” an abbreviation for person which replaces “she” and “he” in Woman On the Edge of Time.”

      – Here are a couple of resources describing usage of gender neutral pronous in English within queer/trans communities:

      http://apps.carleton.edu/student/orgs/saga/pronouns/

      http://www.forge-forward.org/docs/gender_neutral_pronouns.pdf

      I think we can still say “mainstream English usage lacks a pronoun…” but ought to acknowledge that movements do exist to adopt them.

       

      Comment by Radhika Gajjala on September 21st, 2013

      When you say – “We, Robots is feminist because its premise itself metalinguistically accentuates readers’ reliance upon immediate and rigid automatic gender categorization”  

      it might be helpful to elaborate here – perhaps with an example from “We, Robots” of how the author is actually doing what you suggest its doing? It will help clarify your point.

      Comment by Radhika Gajjala on September 21st, 2013

      the points about Octavia Butler and Sidney Poitier need to be fleshed out clearly if there is a connection being made to some kind of race identification – yet if the argument is that Avey is genderless, is Avey also raceless or it Avey identifying with African Americans? If the idea is to point to the Lange’s text as intersectional – it is not yet clear how it is complicating stereotypes. Or maybe I’m just not understanding. In either case – the writing needs to be clear enough …

      Looks like a complex argument is about to be written – but its not there yet.

      Comment by Radhika Gajjala on September 21st, 2013

      Avey’s willfulness potential invokes work such as that of Sara Ahmed on the willful subject – but once again we need elaboration .

      Comment by Radhika Gajjala on September 21st, 2013

      how so? convince me – what is the political resistive text that Lange is developing – why is the argument that this is a feminist text  then so important?  I am beginning to understand that you are pointing to the way she notes the existence of oppressive hierarchies and that oppressive hierarchies dont always come in recognizable “isms” – but I need more elaboration and explanation of how “Regularity” and “Singularity” play out in such a scenario.

      Maybe if there is more elaboration – I think the argument of the whole article will work very well if further developed in relation to more than an abstract monolith named as “Feminism” …

      Comment by Radhika Gajjala on September 22nd, 2013

      isnt there a hierarchy of “humanity” of the robot as superior to that of the human being created? Is there perhaps a critique of a more popular version feminism and egalitarianism of the western democracies of present time implied – perhaps this is another reason to engage more with intersectionality, black feminisms and transnational feminist critiques – and locate this reading in a more complex understanding of “feminism”  – but maybe I am totally off-base.

       

      In either case – I need more elaboration and explanation of various connections.

  • The Cyborg in the Basement Manifesto, or, A Frankenstein of One's Own: How I Stopped Hunting for Cyborgs and Created the Slightly Irregular Definition of Cyborgean Forms of Storytelling (43 comments)

    • Comment by Carol Stabile on August 26th, 2013

      End second to the last sentence after “finish,” maybe. Next sentence could read: “For the last 1o years, he had kept it in his attic.” Bit more punch.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on August 26th, 2013

      Can you set up the question (about your project) more clearly at the beginning of the paragraph? I don’t know if you’re going for a less coherent narrative arc in this section (and I’m kind of obsessive about transitions). So feel free to ignore.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on August 26th, 2013

      I love this paragraph.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on August 26th, 2013

      Insert “of cognitive closure” after “process” in first sentence.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on August 26th, 2013

      I’m curious (and intrigued) as to how the theory you cite in the body of this paragraph relates back to Shelley’s Frankenstein. Does she engage in narrative transmography to an extent insofar as she uses a diary form to narrate a novel (a rather new-ish media form in 1818)?

      Comment by Carol Stabile on August 26th, 2013

      Dollhouses might signify playfulness, but they also smack of the uncanny. There’s something inherently unsettling, I think, about dollhouses, dolls (with their vacant stares), and the frozen tableaux of the domestic sphere that I think very effectively mirrors the violence you write about. I wish that I could attach images to comments — I have one of from a toy museum of a room crowded with dolls and dollhouses that really illustrates my point.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on August 26th, 2013

      I’m not sure what you mean by “the technological singularity” or how it relates (apparently) to feminist social movements. It also seems a bit monolithic, as well to identify something like “the technological singularity.” Perhaps some gloss on this? Some yoking of it to the notion of experience with which you begin the paragraph?

      Comment by Carol Stabile on August 26th, 2013

      What is the singularity? How does it relate to feminism? It’s a great rhetorical ending to the section, but I’m just not sure what it means (and perhaps have a bit of trouble with the monolithic nature of a “technological singularity”).

      Comment by Carol Stabile on August 26th, 2013

      Might be worth noting that Donna Haraway haunts a particular kind of kitchen, a particularity that marks the limitations of the essay. There are kitchens other than those in white suburbia, where women of color labored (and continue to labor) under the watchful eyes of more privileged women. And there are also kitchens that were (and are) for black feminists sites of solidarity and sustenance. Maybe the cyborg/goddess binary is itself a very limiting fiction?

      Comment by Carol Stabile on August 26th, 2013

      Still not clear on what you mean by this notion of the “social singularity.”

      Comment by Carol Stabile on August 26th, 2013

      This is such a provocative and original contribution. I think that like most stories or essays or narratives, we all struggle a bit with conclusions and this essay is no exception. I guess I’d like to see you broaden the creative lens to include other kinds of story telling not dependent on writing or text-based production (you do that elsewhere so would be nice to conclude on a more expansive and inclusive note).

      Comment by nhopkinson on September 21st, 2013

      Grammar and punctuation neepery: “The writing that is housed within is both critical and creative[;] one haunts the other [DELETE COMMA] inside this domestic space. The order is less important than the hypertextual connections [viewers] make on their own as they explore each room.” “The manager, Craig, had never sold his own items in the thrift store before because all proceeds from The Treasure Chest benefit the Albany Damien Center which helps people living with HIV/AIDS.” I don’t follow. “…everyone tried to lowball him. I bought it for his asking price.” There’s a connecting piece missing here; the bit where the author discovers that the dollhouse is still for sale.

      Comment by nhopkinson on September 21st, 2013

      Thank you for bringing your own personal story in — if the “I” of this piece is you — to inform the theory.

      Comment by nhopkinson on September 21st, 2013

      This is so gloriously true of living as a child in a violent household: “In my experience, playing was hardly ever playful; it was a series of calculated, escalating risks.”

      Comment by nhopkinson on September 21st, 2013

      *nods* Dolls are inherently monstrous, i.e invented creatures. Inherently Frankensteinian.

      Comment by nhopkinson on September 21st, 2013

      Reading para 25, the following notion just came to me: a cyborg is an artificial (i.e human-made), reasoning pilot (kybernete) of an artificial body/ship. Mary Shelley’s _Frankenstein_ seems to say that just because the cyborg’s body and its ability to reason are artificial doesn’t mean that its experiences and reactions are false. There may be something there about humans lacking faith in our ability to be truly creative. Probably not an entirely illogical mistrust, given our experience of the complicated natural universe all around us. We might be forgiven for wondering what we could ever make that could achieve that level of artistry. Probably no accident then that cultures the world over have stories of human’s trying to mimic God’s (for argument’s sake) creations and falling prey to our own presumption. The monster that you made turns on you because you are a poor craftsman. You are not God. Huh. I may use this in a story I’ve had in mind for some time. Dibs!

      Comment by nhopkinson on September 21st, 2013

      Agreed. I was tempted to read “the technological singularity” as the moment when humans are so merged with our own machines that we can no longer deny that we ourselves are cyborgs. But that raised the question of whether you’re implying that humanity coming to view itself as a race of cybernetic organisms is inevitable. Then when I read Carol’s comment, I realized that I didn’t know what you meant by the term, so I was theorizing and questioning based on a premise that hadn’t yet been explained.

      Comment by nhopkinson on September 21st, 2013

      Agreed. I was tempted to read “the technological singularity” as the moment when humans are so merged with our own machines that we can no longer deny that we ourselves are cyborgs. But that raised the question of whether you’re implying that humanity coming to view itself as a race of cybernetic organisms is inevitable. Then when I read Carol’s comment, I realized that I didn’t know what you meant by the term, so I was theorizing and questioning based on a premise that hadn’t yet been explained.

      Comment by nhopkinson on September 21st, 2013

      I understood how you meant “the singularity” in [28] because it directly references and quotes discussions we’ve been having in science fiction community. However, many of your readers may not be aware of those conversations, so it might be useful to unpack the concept a little.

      Comment by nhopkinson on September 21st, 2013

      Yes. Also, at the basic sentence level, I was initially confused by “in the kitchen” in the first sentence. At first I thought you meant kitchens in the abstract. Then I realized you meant the kitchen of your dollhouse. Suggest you say that.

      Comment by nhopkinson on September 21st, 2013

      I at first read “crevices” as “cervixes.” Ah, Freud, you devil.

      It may be a bias of mine, but I take issue with “Feminism reminds us that nothing is ever truly original.” It’s the word “original” that’s sticking in my craw. And the absolutism of the statement. I think you mean that many of the modern-day issues that we love to think are unique to us are not? Suggest you consider re-phrasing that sentence, making it less cryptic.

      Comment by nhopkinson on September 21st, 2013

      In this paragraph, you seem to be using the word “singularity” to mean the point at which the machine becomes self-aware. Isn’t that an added meaning from the one you were employing in previous paragraphs? I know the concepts are related. Perhaps those unfamiliar with the concept of the technological singularity might benefit from your quoting von Neumann, who first coined the term? To whit, “ever accelerating progress of technology and changes in the mode of human life, which gives the appearance of approaching some essential singularity in the history of the race beyond which human affairs, as we know them, could not continue.” Or it might work better for you to simply give a quick-and-dirty explication in your own words.

      Comment by nhopkinson on September 21st, 2013

      Interesting about Poe here. Did he see women as merely scribes in the new democratization of printing? IOW, as the people who copy down the writing of men, and not as writers themselves? Yet he would have known or known of women writers. IIRC, doesn’t his own work owe a large debt to Mary Shelley. Wasn’t he familiar with _Frankenstein?_

      Comment by nhopkinson on September 21st, 2013

      Suggest you briefly clarify what you mean by “sharing.”

      Comment by nhopkinson on September 21st, 2013

      FYI: she has also said that as her words die, she plans to attend each of our funerals. -lace

      Comment by nhopkinson on September 21st, 2013

      All our emphases are belong to him. I hadn’t noticed it before in reading his work. Now I know why I find his narrative style a little irritating.

      Comment by nhopkinson on September 21st, 2013

      Ah. Now I see that you do explain the term in the notes. Consider putting the explanation into the main body of the text.

      Comment by nhopkinson on September 21st, 2013

      …and ignore my comment downthread about von Neumann. Couldn’t figure out how to delete it.

      Comment by nhopkinson on September 21st, 2013

      So, this was an interesting piece. I especially enjoyed your bringing the personal and the theoretical into the same sphere. I found the essay kind of rambling, though. You don’t always lead us through to the connections that you’re making, at both the copy-editing and the conceptual level. It gave the essay the effect of intriguing but disconnected bits. For instance, the feminist filter on the notion of the cyborg; you tell us that the feminist intervention into the concept is important to you, which is great. Then near the end of the piece, there’s a paragraph of somewhat generalized statements about feminism does in this arena. But I felt as though the middle was lacking, you know? Perhaps I wanted more demonstrations of some of the specifically feminist interventions. Not that a person has to be a feminist for us to read their actions through a feminist lens. Maybe it’s that I perceived unsupported assertions about feminism in the piece. If you say something like “the feminist body is a cyborg body” (perhaps not an actual quotation from your piece, so I may be barking up the wrong tree), then I anticipate that you are going to tell me the ways in which the feminist body is a cyborg body. As to lacks of connections at the copy-editing level; para 6 begins “There was a hand-scrawled sign that read “sold” on the dollhouse.” And I was thrown out of the narrative, because you’d been talking about a virtual dollhouse. You gave no clue that you were now talking about a meatspace experience of seeing a real dollhouse. I had to infer it. Then you’re talking about Craig, who manages something, but I don’t yet know what, or what relevance it has to the piece. You talk about The Treasure Chest in para 7 without telling us what it is. That information comes later, in bits and pieces. You tell us that you ask whether the dollhouse has actually been sold, but you don’t tell us the answer. Of course I figure the answer out when a few paragraphs later you tell us how much you paid for the dollhouse. But the connecting bit of the answer to your question isn’t there. At the bottom of para 8, you tell us that you felt a psychic urge to go to the thrift store that day. So I have to mentally go backwards in time to insert a missing element into a sequence of events I’d already experienced. All more confused by the fact that those first few paragraphs need to be copy-edited. In addition to the confusion around the sequence of events, there are grammar, punctuation and tense errors, and at least one incorrect word substitution (“effect” for “affect”). It’s odd, because you don’t do any of that from para 10 on. Now, I know it is possible to do a sort of backhanded flow of events for one effect or another (by which I mean throwing us into a setting and actions before telling us what led to it or where we are). But in those first 8 paragraphs, it feels as though you’ve done so by accident and therefore without purpose.

      Oddly, I think I could be okay with the disjointedness of ideas in the essay. It feels as though you’re still working through your ideas about an issue that has complex resonances for you. It’s as though you’re allowing us a glimpse into your creative process while it’s in process. There is value in that, and generosity on your part. If I’m at all correct and you feel it’d be useful, you might consider saying that this is a work in progress, and even, where you can identify them, pointing out the places where your connections seem muddy to you. I’ve found when I’ve done that that I get very valuable feedback from my audience that helps me get to the next step along the road to building a (literally) coherent piece. Good work. It gave me tons of food for thought. I stopped reading it midway to spend an hour writing down notions of my own about the function of science fiction and fantasy. They were sparked by issues you were raising. Thank you.

      Comment by nhopkinson on September 21st, 2013

      It’s just occurred to me that you could begin the piece with the first two sentences of para 6. Gives the effect of tossing us into media res, and intimates a personal story, which can draw readers in more closely.

      Comment by jdreadful on September 27th, 2013

      Nice! Thanks!

      Comment by jdreadful on September 27th, 2013

      Absolutely! Thank you. I want to embrace creative critical writing, but I also want it to be clear. Thanks for this. I sometimes am so close to a piece of writing that it’s hard to find the revision points.

      Comment by jdreadful on September 27th, 2013

      Yay! Thanks!

      Comment by jdreadful on September 27th, 2013

      Thanks! I completely rewrote this piece for this round of peer review and broke it up in different ways from the first version, so sometimes I forget that the chronological timeline needs more structure, less slippage!

      Comment by jdreadful on September 27th, 2013

      At first it was that, but it’s more about how the structure of the story mirrors the narrative drive. The fragmented structure of Frankenstein highlights the novel’s conspicuous invisibility of female agency: readers see the parts, but perceive the whole. Thanks for pointing this out. I will make this connection more concretely!

      Comment by jdreadful on September 27th, 2013

      It is me. And thank you. It was super scary. But I’m glad I did it.

      Comment by jdreadful on September 27th, 2013

      Thanks you both. This was incredibly scary to write about, I’m glad it’s working.

      Comment by jdreadful on September 27th, 2013

      Also, that reminds me: I totally need to bring back The Uncanny in this piece. Even if it’s just a small dose.

      Comment by jdreadful on September 27th, 2013

      Dibs on reading it! undertaker@transmography.net

      Comment by jdreadful on September 27th, 2013

      Thank you! I tried revising this issue specifically for this round of review, but I still need to work on it! Ha! Better to know now!

      Comment by jdreadful on September 27th, 2013

      All of this is helpful. Sometimes I don’t know which information is repetitive or not. It kinda nice to be given permission to unpack concepts.

      Comment by jdreadful on September 27th, 2013

      Oooooh! This is awesome.

      Comment by jdreadful on September 27th, 2013

      Ha! I had that in the original version of this piece. I will bring back.

  • Casual Games and the Work of Affect (43 comments)

    • Comment by Nina Huntemann on February 8th, 2013

      This is a very strong piece and uses some compelling theory to understand gaming. The writing is very strong—I particularly enjoyed the introduction and how the complex nature of the culture around casual gaming is conveyed to the reader. Here are some overall thoughts for consideration:

      I think the biggest issue that I had was with organization. At times it felt like the author jumped around between topics and there was not enough of a roadmap always to follow where each direction would take the reader. I think there needs to be more clarity towards the beginning of the essay about not just the overall argument but how the author is going to take us there.

      I’m conflicted over the use of Diner Dash. On one hand, it was an excellent example of the affective play that the author is discussing in this article. On the other hand, it makes the introduction slightly misleading as the author is not talking about all casual games in general but really focusing on DD. Towards the author mentions other casual games but I’m unconvinced in part because there are not enough alternative examples from other categories of casual gaming. Either focus solely on time management games (and clarify this in introduction and thesis) or broaden the scope to talk about other kinds of casual gaming. After all, if we are talking about “affective play” there is different affect to Angry Birds than there is to DD. Or Tetris.

      There are moments when the essay feels like a really big argument with Bogost. I, most certainly, have no issue with arguing with Bogost. I highly encourage it. But maybe the author can tone it down a notch or keep it to one or two sections.

      I would like just a little bit more on “affect” and maybe more clarity throughout the essay about how it fits in. I thInk there are moments when this is alluded to but not necessarily spelled out.

      Overall, again, I found this very enjoyable and look forward to seeing revised versions of the essay.

      Comment by Nina Huntemann on February 8th, 2013

      Please explain “Greenbergian”

      Comment by Nina Huntemann on February 8th, 2013

      Distinction between affect and emotion isn’t clear.

      Comment by Nina Huntemann on February 8th, 2013

      Great analysis of these charitable gestures and how they fit into labor and globalization.

      Comment by Nina Huntemann on February 8th, 2013

      Why? Elaborate the idea of experimental, and how these games afford this? I’m not convinced of its critical potential.

      Comment by Nina Huntemann on February 8th, 2013

      This is an interesting argument, but the paper focuses so much on Diner Dash. Is this potentiality possibly across all (or even most) of the “causal” genre?

      Comment by Radhika Gajjala on February 9th, 2013

      Well done essay – I have so much to say in dialogue with this article – however that can wait until the article is published.

      Suggestions – Work on the affect literature a bit more – unpack – weave through and clearly justify your choice of affect theorists in relation to the actual arguments you are making.
      What you are arguing connects to issues about affective labor and immaterial labor of women across time – through spaces feminized as women’s leisure spaces .

      You have signalled to some of these connections – and that might suffice to place it in context – but the affect theory connections have to take into account immaterial labor of women in work cultures a little more explicitly.

      It does not matter – as you point out – whether casual games are actually played by more men or more women – the issue is the feminization of that genre and the perception that women of a certain rank in organizations (issues class and literacy are raised too here) .

      I would suggest looking at work by Brennan (Exhausting Modernity)

      Sianne Ngai (Ugly Feelings) and also Marazzin (Capital and affects) and connect to
      the construction of the leisure as
      opposed to productive labor – and you’ve done some of this – as gamification of systems and organizations gets legitimized (and masculinized) through notions of “hardcore” and “real” gaming and so on.

      Look also at work by Alessandrini and Fortunati ,

      But the revision does not have to be extensive – just unpack affect more clearly.

      Comment by Radhika Gajjala on February 10th, 2013

      elaborate and recap Bogost;s argument more clearly.

      Comment by Radhika Gajjala on February 10th, 2013

      contextualize Thomas Kinkade (in the US context, his work as “kitsch” might be more easily understood that in a non-US context. Our readership comes from all over the world so I suggest a brief note.

      Comment by Radhika Gajjala on February 10th, 2013

      Maybe a sentence or so each about how and where each of these three mobilize the notion of affect?

       

      Comment by karenfalexander on February 10th, 2013

      What support are you offering for the claim that women play casual games more than men?

      Comment by Radhika Gajjala on February 12th, 2013

      The fact that they have indeed shifted the economic model of the video game industry is key.

      Comment by daramurray on March 3rd, 2013

      Nice introduction

      Comment by daramurray on March 3rd, 2013

      last sentence — tease out what “somewhat uncomfortably” means here

      Comment by daramurray on March 3rd, 2013

      line 6 — comma  in between “for” and “Bogost”

       

      Comment by daramurray on March 3rd, 2013

      line 1 — unpack “Greenbergian”

       

      line 15 onwards — I appreciate the clear way that you set out your argument, but recognize that it does not mention gender/feminism, and this paper is being considered for a special issue on “Feminist Game Studies”…

      Comment by daramurray on March 3rd, 2013

      last sentence — it may be helpful to stress the notion of neoliberal productivity in re: to the “laboring subject-citizen”

      Comment by daramurray on March 3rd, 2013

      It would be great if you could more specifically draw here on scholarly literature here that connects affect and gender, as well as affect, gender, and video games — or, is this integration your contribution?

      Comment by daramurray on March 3rd, 2013

      lines 11-12 — Why do you make this assumption? Why is stating that you are making this assumption valuable to this paper? It may be better to rephrase this sentence.

      Comment by daramurray on March 3rd, 2013

      last sentence – can you cite research about this? Seems like an important point for your broader argument that could be extended.

      Comment by daramurray on March 3rd, 2013

      How is being a veterinarian or working on a magic farm “dream jobs” for women?

      Comment by daramurray on March 3rd, 2013

      Your question towards the end of this paragraph is interesting, I just wonder why it doesn’t say, “What we need to ask, then, is what constitutes the **working woman’s/laboring woman’s** own work in the context of causal games and the 24-hour digital workplace?

      Comment by daramurray on March 3rd, 2013

      Are her co-workers men? Men and women? I’m curious about the gendered dynamics of labor here…

      Comment by daramurray on March 3rd, 2013

      Great paragraph, and connections between your argument and the literature!

      Comment by daramurray on March 3rd, 2013

      lines 12-13 — what does “feminist potential” mean here?

      Comment by daramurray on March 3rd, 2013

      Better to paraphrase the quote at the end of par. 28 since you then immediately lead into another quote.

      Comment by daramurray on March 3rd, 2013

      Massumi’s work seems like it should be described earlier in this paper

      Comment by daramurray on March 3rd, 2013

      This is a well written and interesting paper. I wonder, though, if it fits an issue on “Feminist Game Studies,” since it does not engage with feminist theory or feminist game studies as much as I would like. I really enjoyed the analysis of gender and affect in Diner Dash, but the following sections (from par. 31 onwards) do not discuss gender much at all.  More examples of gender and affect in other causal games, rather than the subsequent focus on “Clicking and Connection,” would benefit this paper greatly to be part of this special issue. Overall, I enjoyed reading this paper.

      Comment by Jacqueline Wallace on March 4th, 2013

      It would be helpful to acknowledge the history of feminist writing on women and leisure time here. If not fully weave in that this kind of dismissal of feminine past times has precedence, such as Radway’s now classic study on the romance, then at least signpost it with a footnote.

      Comment by Jacqueline Wallace on March 4th, 2013

      I second both these comments.

      Comment by Jacqueline Wallace on March 4th, 2013

      This argument might be extended to note that this labour is not only in part the production of digital commodities, but also leaves a deep well of so-called big data for corporations (and capitalism more broadly) to mine for profit.

      Comment by Aubrey Anable on April 25th, 2013

      Thanks for the careful and close reading. I hope my revisions address all of your concerns.

      By reframing my argument and reorganizing some of the sections I hope to make a better case for why a close reading of Diner Dash and similar games offers a case study for not only the work of affect in time management games, but also casual games more broadly.

      As several reviewers noted, I need to flesh out what I mean by affect more. I agree completely and hope that my revisions clear this up. Part of the trick is that the very way “affect” is theorized is that it kind of escapes our vocabulary. But I’ve added a lot more about what theories of affect, specifically, apply and why.

      Regarding Bogost, I do have an argument with him, but it is a friendly one. I have toned it down a bit in my revised version.

      Again, many thanks for the insightful feedback.

      Comment by Aubrey Anable on April 25th, 2013

      Thank you! This is really helpful. I am especially excited by your suggestion to look at Sianne Ngai. I found that a chapter on “zaniness” in her latest book, Our Aesthetic Categories, was exactly what I needed to connect some of the loose threads in my essay.

      As I explain in my comment to the first reviewer, you are totally correct about needing to flesh out the affect section more. I hope my revisions adequately address this.

      I also take to heart your suggestion to connect the affective labor of time management games to the affective (immaterial) labor of women across time. The disconnect between feminist conceptions of affective labor and the neo-Marxist conceptions of immaterial labor interests me. I think part of what I am trying to say is that the transition of casual games from explicitly gendered media to more ambiguously gendered media is related to the ways affective labor itself has become more ambiguously gendered in late-capitalism. Ngai makes a similar claim, but with the important caveat that gender is still operating in how labor is “felt” and experienced on the ground.

      Thanks again for your generous feedback.

      Comment by Aubrey Anable on April 25th, 2013

      In my revised version I’ve added the footnote that got left out here. There are various industry studies and market reports that find women over the age of 35 to make up the largest segment of casual game players. This is changing. I address this more explicitly in my revisions.

      Comment by Aubrey Anable on April 25th, 2013

      Indeed. Good point. Thank you.

      Comment by Aubrey Anable on April 25th, 2013

      I’ve taken the reference out because it’s not that important to my overall point. I was trying to signal the quite significant body of literature–mainly in art history–that has been produced in response to Clement Greenberg’s famous assertion that mass culture, mainly kitsch, was dumbing down art. I have a lengthy footnote now that speaks to the more relevant history of dismissing “feminine” culture and/or aligning mass culture with women’s genres, etc.

      Comment by Aubrey Anable on April 25th, 2013

      In my revisions I speak more directly to your concern that gender disappears a bit in my argument. My short answer is that while gender specifically becomes less significant when I make broader claims for how affect works in casual games (as part of the way gender also becomes more ambiguous in how affective labor itself is conceptualized in late capitalism); feminism does not disappear. By questioning the ways gender informs the very questions we ask in game studies, I am trying to propose a feminist engagement with affect in games. This does not, in my opinion, have to always be about gender in order to be feminist.

      Comment by Aubrey Anable on April 25th, 2013

      There is very little literature on affect theory and video games (as I am conceptualizing it). There is, of course, social scientific literature of things like aggression and the effect of video games, but that’s not really what I am talking about. I have incorporated a couple of articles, from the same author, that engages with affect and games.

      Comment by Aubrey Anable on April 25th, 2013

      I am analyzing the limitations of the industry report based on the fact that a far broader segment of the population had access to casual games than just “white collar” workers. And also my own observations that lots of people play games on their phones or other devices in work environments that are decidedly not “white collar.”

      Comment by Aubrey Anable on April 25th, 2013

      excellent point!

      Comment by Aubrey Anable on April 25th, 2013

      Nor am I, really. See revisions.

      Comment by Aubrey Anable on April 25th, 2013

      I think my revisions will address this concern as I have tried to be more explicit about how I understand my engagement with casual games to be feminist.

      Comment by Aubrey Anable on April 25th, 2013

      footnote that addresses this got dropped. Will be there in revised version.

  • Curating with a Click: The Art That Participatory Media Leaves Behind (43 comments)

    • Comment by Michelle Moravec on January 12th, 2015

      I love this topic.  I’m fascinated with the broadened use of the word curate and how “favorite” might play with/against notions of careful selection.  I also love how this plays with off ideas of favoritism that you have discussed here, the crowds’ attraction to that which they know or find familiar.  

      Comment by Michelle Moravec on January 12th, 2015

      This is fascinating in what it reveals about what “people” think “art” is. 1. painting 2. largely representative 3. limited range of colors 

      Comment by Michelle Moravec on January 12th, 2015

      This is fascinating in what it reveals about what “people” think “art” is. 1. painting 2. largely representative 3. limited range of colors 4. BY MEN

      Comment by Michelle Moravec on January 12th, 2015

      To me, these are even more interesting than the most popular.  I’m curious about the order of discussing them here.  We have strong affective pull to the chosen art, implying a concomitant disdain/disgust for the least popular.  That is fascinating in light of “curation” “favoring” distinction I inoked discussed above.  Curators select based on criteria which may rely  negative affect, the ability to shock, for example or innovate.

      Comment by Michelle Moravec on January 12th, 2015

      This absolutely fascinates me.  If people like figurative painting you’d think they’d LOVE figurative sculpture which is three dimensional.  I wonder if voters were conditioned to think of the oil painting as the ne plus ultra of fine art? 

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 1st, 2015

      So the art was available for viewing online? 

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 1st, 2015

      How many of the total number of pieces were by people of color? You note the number by women earlier, but I’d be interested in that figure. 

      Comment by Carol Stabile on February 1st, 2015

      I really like this careful, well-written piece, thus the scarcity of editorial commentary. My feedback really boils down to one thing and that’s an absence of a discussion of class. I kept thinking about Bourdieu’s Distinction as I read this and his rich analysis of the educational capital it requires to understand specific types of art. His observations about working-class and lower middle-class “tastes” line up almost directly with your own observations about what people liked.

      If art or media are in part about identifications and relationships between interpreters and objects, and if those processes are rooted in class positions and social inequalities, then I found myself torn in reading your analysis until I got toward the end and your suggestions about opening up the space of interpretation so it isn’t just about reflecting the tastes of either those with less educational capital or those with more educational capital, but about finding a way to make those perspectives more transparent and available to everyone.

      I think this is a convoluted way of suggesting that perhaps your argument could begin by talking about the space of perspectives and how, perhaps, neither crowdsourcing nor more elitist approaches are insufficient to making art meaningful in the age of new media. 

      Comment by Kate O'Riordan on February 3rd, 2015

      should there be a link here?  

      Comment by Kate O'Riordan on February 3rd, 2015

       It feels like it might be worth making some distinctions between voting as curation on the one hand – and exhibits around digital interactivity – and interactive/digital artwork – The conflation of ‘interactive’ and ‘voting’ per se is a bit confusing and makes very oblique the history of digital art that might have also operated as a critique of some of the imperatives of digital culture – including interactivity. 

      Comment by Kate O'Riordan on February 3rd, 2015

      This is a fascinating study of the choices made in the specific example, and a critical and  reflective engagement which draws out a number of ways of thinking about this case and the move towards participation.  I really enjoyed reading it and can imagine using this in teaching.  I thought it was a great illustration of the way that structural conditions come into play even when people feel they are making individual choices – so the implication that ‘participation’ is  always about participation in structural conditions is quite powerful.  I wondered about class as well because of issues about choosing what you think you should chose because it makes you look more educated – but this is more a comment and engagement with the text than an edit.  The only edit I think worth making is a bit of desegregation around interactivity and around digital art – and I indicated where I though this was relevant.  It also reminded me of Andrew Barry’s chapter on museums and interactivity in political machines and I think is nicely in conversation with some of this. 

      Comment by carolyn.elerding@gmail.com on February 8th, 2015

      What a valuable archive and data set for showing the operation of cultural hegemony. I think it’s tremendous that a scholar of your abilities has taken this project on. I greatly appreciate the wonderfully clean prose, tidy organization, and evocative descriptions of visual art. I have a few critiques, but my support for the piece greatly outweighs them (though my favorite passages remain unmarked):   I think that the impact of this piece would be reinforced by an explication of the theoretical currents informing your critique. You may have considered this possibility already, but I think a data visualization of your analyses would make a compelling addition to the images you have planned to include. I would have liked the discussion of race and gender to include more diversity than, for instance, people of color as opposed to white, or male as opposed to female. If social complexity had already been excluded from the site and archive before this interactive exhibit process, that seems like an important point to mention and explore. One might argue that whiteness and cisgendered heteronormativity are significantly centered through choosing this site for research. On this, I would be interested in reading your thoughts as an intersectional feminist researcher.  

      Comment by carolyn.elerding@gmail.com on February 8th, 2015

      The notion of “aesthetic privilege” deserves fuller articulation here, especially in terms of linking realism with privilege. I’m very curious to find out what that means for abstraction, the appreciation of which tends to require a high level of education. Should we understand privilege in the sense of majority belonging (not that the middle class represents the majority in the U.S., but only among the museum-goers) rather than assigning it to the upper classes? It makes sense, but only with more explanation. In short, I’m asking for a definition of privilege for the purposes of this argument.  

      Comment by carolyn.elerding@gmail.com on February 8th, 2015

      I really enjoy the interactive possibilities here.  

      Comment by carolyn.elerding@gmail.com on February 8th, 2015

      In reference to the second sentence of this paragraph, I am uncomfortable with the opposition you describe between “the crowd” and oppositional art, especially given the particularity of this self-selecting sample. It seems to me that a discussion of critiques of vanguardism could be useful here. Also, I wonder if that opposition maps onto the conceptualization of a high/low divide in culture that needs to be navigated with the utmost reflexivity. Otherwise, however, this paragraph is as strong as the others. You’ve been mentioning class regularly, and this seems like a particularly salient point to dig into the subject more deeply.  

      Comment by carolyn.elerding@gmail.com on February 8th, 2015

      The relationship you refer to between personal taste and broader structures would benefit from more detailed elaboration. “Cultural biases” are, by definition, broader than personal taste, unless I am overlooking something.  

      Comment by carolyn.elerding@gmail.com on February 8th, 2015

      I think the final sentence of this paragraph could be interpreted as sarcastic or ironic, and upon first reading it’s difficult to decipher your intention.  

      Comment by carolyn.elerding@gmail.com on February 8th, 2015

      Much as I agree with your argument and analysis, I think “hate” might be too strong a term to describe the marginalization of abstraction and representations of people of color. It’s too active and overt, in my view, to accurately portray the insidious complacency and insularity depicted by your subject and analysis. Also, I’d counsel against using the rhetorical question device in the final sentence of this paragraph, or at least modify it somewhat to make your inflection very, very clear.  

      Comment by carolyn.elerding@gmail.com on February 8th, 2015

      Would it be possible to expand the analysis that begins in the final sentence? Or would that require another article entirely?  

      Comment by carolyn.elerding@gmail.com on February 8th, 2015

      The third sentence presents, in my view, an unearned conclusion: is the expansion of access to the interactive process what has filtered out oppositional artworks? In other words, is it possible to know whether the outcome would have been different had the selection process been limited to local users?  

      Comment by carolyn.elerding@gmail.com on February 8th, 2015

      The first sentence, the entire paragraph, is incisive and very important. I’m not certain it receives the emphasis it deserves. You might consider foreshadowing your nuanced position in the introductory section.  

      Comment by carolyn.elerding@gmail.com on February 8th, 2015

      As I read the last sentence of this paragraph, I felt that your conclusion was less than fair. Undeniably, bias is in operation; that’s not what I would take issue with. What I would ask you to consider is whether other psychological, affective, or cognitive processes might lie behind the reticence of privileged north American white folks to address poor children of color dwelling in the global south. I wonder if shame plays a role: not having “nothing to say” but rather not knowing where to start or if one even should.  

      Comment by pgardner on February 9th, 2015

      I’m wondering about the earlier comment that the local community was the museum primarily caters to the local community– was does that mean precisely and is it possible to describe them?  (Do you have that data?)  As you are pursuing an argument about representativeness, you’ll want to determine who the usual museum goers are; then you are able to work toward this argument that it is reflecting their biases.  Is there more data regarding which art was rejected; can you show us that it was more contentious and representative? Finally the  concept of aesthetic privilege can be broken down– what kinds of apparent biases are these and what kinds of privilege (economic/access, cultural?)

      Comment by pgardner on February 9th, 2015

       I would suggest its more than popularity, its a steady trend across both galleries and major museums.

      Comment by pgardner on February 9th, 2015

      Again, I’d put a brief summary of the data and make this large argument, then move on to reveal this data and argue it point by point. I’m unsure as to what the content is and why we should view it as representing  either normative/mainstream ideology or something more pushy/progressive.

      Comment by pgardner on February 9th, 2015

      Can you tease out the distinctions then between crowdsourcing opinions and  engaging in participatory curation?  

      Comment by pgardner on February 9th, 2015

       What does responsibly mean; can you qualify? 

      Comment by pgardner on February 9th, 2015

      Yes, looking for a link.  That would be great. 

      Comment by pgardner on February 9th, 2015

       Could you provide examples of the pieces they offer as digitally interactive to give readers a sense of both the scope across museums and what is deemed to be “interactive”. I’d strongly advise you critique the “participation” that is possible in interactions that enable users to only choose and don’t allow feedback from users or enable users to alter the work/narrative/ etc.  

      Comment by pgardner on February 9th, 2015

      Similar to my comment above–it would be useful to flesh out the difference between  “participatory” and “interactive,” and then the valence of these terms– what is possible for the participant in both scenarios? 

      Comment by pgardner on February 9th, 2015

       As well, which lessons from the Internet is Simon referring to?

      Comment by pgardner on February 9th, 2015

      Important again, to unpack  these terms– in what ways is voting (for top 3 art picks) not actually a practice of curating? 

      Comment by pgardner on February 9th, 2015

       Here you might be interested in Claire Bishop’s critical writings on curating and participatory culture.  She has many refs– one of her key books is entitled Participation.

      Comment by pgardner on February 9th, 2015

      Again, before you build such an argument, I’d rethink what you mean by curating and participating.  Participants here are voting, not exactly curating and voting is not an example of participatory media.  Are participants told that they are participating as opposed to simply voting?  If the point is that voting — and these votes in particular– create a biased exhibition that I would suggest that point  be clarified.    Can voting re-popularize art?  Is the author’s point that voting is presented as participation and meant to re-popularize art to a certain population?

      Comment by pgardner on February 9th, 2015

       It becomes clear at this point that there was an opportunity for visitors to curate.  Would suggest this is made clear at the beginning of the essay; there is both voting and later, after the voting, a curatorial opportunity. On a second point, this would be more persuasive if author provides a deeper analysis of the art content and artists, rather than a short interpretation; readers would like the opportunity to understand the data that you are interpreting.  What does it mean that they continued to participate?  

      Comment by pgardner on February 9th, 2015

       Here is would be helpful to mention stats on the percentage of women artists who get shown in museums and galleries in North america. Guerrilla girls, for example, publishes such stats. It would provide evidence that this could be part of a trend that these gallery goers are replicating. 

      Comment by pgardner on February 9th, 2015

       Ok- I see here is some of the data I was referring to in the last post.  Can you also note what was left out /not chosen?  

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       My general comment to paragraphs 18-21 is to urge the author to note that choices occur for a range of reasons and context and set up for readers that she will undertake this type of investigation of the crowd sourced vote.  This paragraph currently reads, to me ,as though the analysis is going to proceed as a critique of only gender bias/taste when there are a myriad of other factors that must be considered.  I see that you address their comments but I’d suggest you to include other factors.For example, is the museum known to usually display contemporary and new media work; what is its mandate? What were voters asked to do- simply vote for one’s favourite – I wasn’t clear on how many each voter could vote for?  It is not the same to curate based on single favourites of voters (crowd sourced, as you state) as to endeavor to representatively curate with diversity– to give voters the choice to curate many pieces.)  Who is the population who visits the museum; does it cater to their mandate or a diverse mandate?  Once such things are determined, the author can better contextualize voters choices.  Are the choices culturally normative—are they non inclusive of the local culture or of broader cultures/ spaces/geographies? What does that then mean?  That would allow for an analysis that addresses this nuance– what these art goers apparently prefer to see in this particular museum and how it reflects or counters the usual curatorial and strategic goals of this particular museum. As well, its important to analysis both what voters voted out  but also what would it have meant if those other pieces were voted in. What would have been curated in the end; would that exhibit have been a sea change for the usual curating practices of the museum?   I would suggest in other words, that the analysis should focus on trying to understand more broadly the context of the museum goers preferences.  Finally, I would suggest it is unsurprising that art goers relate to things that are more common to their experiences. I would suggest that they were asked for a single favorites and they gave their favorites. What is curated is a different story they were asked to put something together that makes some kind of narrative. Clearly this does not seem to be very progressive or radical art going crowd. But at the same time, we don’t want to overstate findings.   Can we go on to ask a different question perhaps—such as what would it take to get the voters to prioritize more inclusive or progressive or marginalized content over normative and familiar representations of their life and environments; why might those pieces be less attractive to these voters?

      Comment by pgardner on February 9th, 2015

      Again I’d hesitate to accept this voting as a practice that could be deemed to be participatory media. 

      Comment by pgardner on February 9th, 2015

       My same moments as above; all of this is more compelling if we know the mandate of the museum, who the museum goers and what they thought they were voting for.  We want to take care to analyse the data that we know we have; my biggest concern was that they were asked to vote for their favourite; it doesn’t follow that they don’t like alternative reps of women or sculpture but it shows it wasn’t in their favourite in the collection… 

      Comment by pgardner on February 9th, 2015

      Now this is very compelling as data, in my opinion, because it is explicitly curated as a story about class and wealth distribution globally.  Again,  your finding is  in keeping with lots of research that lots of  people identify with whom they are more familiar — for all kinds of reasons. I would recommend that you  state that you aren’t seeking to discover why individuals hold these kinds of preferences (which would require sociological, psychological and cultural studies analyses for example,) but rather it would be important to reveal these preferences back to the museum goers so that they can reflect on why they hold them and what kinds of implications that has for their comments, their art desires, their social and cultural practices, etc.  Your next paragraph leads nicely from that– asking how we might curate commentary that would expose these preferences to museum goers…

      Comment by pgardner on February 9th, 2015

       Now this is more compelling as data, in my opinion, because it is explicitly curated as a story about class and wealth distribution globally.  The responses you note again replicate what research has shown many times– that many people identify with whom they are more familiar — for all kinds of reasons.  Would recommend that you make clear that the essay does not seek to discover, definitively, why individuals hold these kinds of preferences (which would require sociological, psychological and cultural studies analyses for example.) Having said that, you can show that this is a curious trend suggesting discomfort with difference. Then you could ask a different question– could the museum reveal these preferences back to the museum goers so that they can reflect on why they hold them and what kinds of implications that has for their comments, their art desires, their social and cultural practices, etc.  Your next paragraph leads nicely from that– asking how we might curate commentary that would expose these preferences to museum goers… as a digital project

      Comment by pgardner on February 9th, 2015

       So then here I’d suggest you describe why the digital interface (allowing not only commentary but interaction with feedback and even ongoing feedback loops and networked forms of interaction) is an ideal venue to hold such an experiment–that is allowing users to query their own “preferences” for certain kinds of material.   I’m not sure I’m convinced by the analysis of “fun.” I think perhaps museum goers are asked to have fun yes but also to see this as a form of participation. A lot of hay could be made here re: neoliberal culture and our mythical belief that a little bit of “participation” is actually akin to (a more substantive act) like curating…

      Comment by pgardner on February 9th, 2015

      Again, I’d recommend that if the author does undertake to nuance the difference between participation (voting) and interactivity and curating, and with attention to why/how digital art /digital curating can achieve this, that the conclusion could reflect those changes. Dear author: Thanks for the work! Hope that our comments are helpful.  Best of luck with the article, Paula 

  • 'It’s Just a Lot More Casual': Young Heterosexual Women’s Experiences of Using Tinder in New Zealand (40 comments)

    • Comment by Carol Stabile on June 16th, 2016

      Ironically, discourses very similar to those the media uses to describe Uber. It seems to me that what you are hinting at in this introductory section is that media accounts of new technologies that enhance women’s sexual or spatial mobilities are positioned as the causes of sexual violence when, as we all know, sexual violence wasn’t invented by the internet. Might be worth situating your discussion of Tinder within this framework.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on June 16th, 2016

      You need to provide a series of  transitions here: between this section and the short section above on Tinder, as well as between the section on Holloway and the status of contemporary heterosexuality. If, as you say in Paragraph 7, Western ideals of this have shifted over the past twenty years, how does Holloway’s map still apply?

      Comment by Carol Stabile on June 16th, 2016

      I like the invocation of Vance and the persistence of the problems and contradictions she evoked (as well as the limits of her own framework). Perhaps beginning with this might allow for a more effective framework for your own analysis?

      Comment by Carol Stabile on June 16th, 2016

      Might be worthwhile talking about the dynamic nature of dating. “Online dating” always makes it seem as though the practices associated with online dating are somehow historically unique.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on June 16th, 2016

      Historically situating dating (as I mention in the preceding paragraph) would also allow you organize this and the following paragraphs with more ease. For example, you could begin this paragraph by saying that online dating reflects gendered differences in goals and strategies. You might want to take a look at Beth Bailey’s From the Front Porch to the Back Seat.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on June 16th, 2016

      Following from my comments on the preceding two paragraphs, here’s where you begin to make the case for how online dating is distinct from previous practices. Would be good to make that transition more explicit.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on June 16th, 2016

      Do you think that online dating also allows women a greater degree of safety (ironically, given the media discourses), insofar as the initial screening doesn’t have to happen face-to-face or in a dating situation? Here I’m thinking about the Feminist Phone Intervention described in Issue 6 of Ada and the inspiration for it, which was that many women do not feel safe saying no to men, especially in situations where alcohol is involved: http://adanewmedia.org/2015/01/issue6-fpi/.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on June 16th, 2016

      Is there any actual research on the prevalence of these crimes? The formulation of these threats really sounds more like a moral panic, one that assumes that face-to-face dating is a safe and risk-free undertaking. From what we know about sexual violence, women are more likely to be raped by men they know than strangers; more likely to be murdered by husbands and lovers.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on June 16th, 2016

      Can you provide a definition/description of online dating and maybe distinguish from computer dating (the precursor of online dating, in the eyes of man). Nothing elaborate, but it would help to know what you have in mind. OkCupid and Match.com began in 2004-5, I think. But would be good to have a sense of the chronology you’re working with.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on June 16th, 2016

      The first sentence of this is really intriguing — can you unpack it a bit?

      Comment by Carol Stabile on June 16th, 2016

      In the third sentence, do you mean to ask whether the use of Tinder intensified women’s perceptions of risk? This seems an important point — the difference between women feeling empowered by Tinder and more able to control their sexual lives vs. women feeling that their use of Tinder made them less safe (the latter leaving aside the question of whether dating apps make women less safe, which is a separate, empirical question).

      Comment by Carol Stabile on June 16th, 2016

      She also seems to be suggesting that it’s mobility is a plus — you don’t have to be “sitting down at a computer” (like the stereotypes of computer users) to interact with it.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on June 16th, 2016

      There’s a word missing in the first sentence here. Also, one of the points (harking back to my comment on the preceding paragraph) that validates Tinder over online dating is that it’s less “creepy” (which I’m inferring means that people who are engaging in these activities don’t conform to older stereotypes about people who engage in online activities).

      Comment by Carol Stabile on June 16th, 2016

      One of the things these women seemed to like was this notion of the “cleaner break.” This might be worth exploring a bit. How do you interpret this? Why do women appreciate the fact that the men weren’t connected in any other way to their every day lives?

      Comment by Carol Stabile on June 16th, 2016

      It might be analytically helpful to separate deceit about appearance from danger. Being disappointed when someone’s appearance doesn’t line up with expectations themselves based on stereotypes of male desirability is not the same thing as fearing that one’s safety has been compromised.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on June 16th, 2016

      This paragraph might be broken into two separate paragraphs, which would allow you to explore this contradictory terrain in more detail. I’m not sure that the issue is a neoliberal social context — after all, slut-shaming pre-exists neoliberalism. But it really points to the dialectic of pleasure and danger that remains at the center of heterosexual women’s dating practices. But I don’t think this is limited to the use of Tinder. Joan Nestle wrote eloquently of this in her essay, “My Mother Liked to Fuck,” where she talked about the price her bawdy working-class mother paid for claiming sexual agency. The belief that somehow Tinder is the problem rather than violent forms of patriarchal privilege misses the boat.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on June 16th, 2016

      This is a great paragraph. Really brings things together.

      Comment by Carol Stabile on June 16th, 2016

      I really like this article. I think it would be stronger were you to more clearly lay out the framework at the beginning, situating Tinder within the context of heterosexual dating practices that are themselves in flux because of broader economic and cultural shifts.

      You might also want to take a look at Hicks’s article on “Computer Love,” also under review in this issue.

      Comment by jeremiahfavara on June 25th, 2016

      This paragraph does a great job setting up the parameters of Tinder as a platform. Given that Tinder requires a link to an existing Facebook page along with Facebook’s stringent policy of transparency regarding user profiles, how is Tinder both anonymous is terms of use yet verified in terms of correspondence with a Facebook profile? It seems that while Tinder allows for users to browse anonymously the platform also requires a measure of transparency unlike other dating apps that might not require vetting through a partner site like Facebook.

      Comment by jeremiahfavara on June 25th, 2016

      As I mentioned above, I think the formal link to Facebook could be elaborated on in marking Tinder as somehow distinct from other online dating apps.

      Comment by jeremiahfavara on June 25th, 2016

      I’d be curious to hear how the fact that Tinder requires a mutual match in order for messaging to occur marks it as different from other online dating sites in terms of risk, not only in the form of women looking out for potential danger signs but also in terms of the risk of online harassment.

      Comment by jeremiahfavara on June 25th, 2016

      I think the point about women’s “detective work” is interesting and important in discussing Tinder as allowing different screening processes in terms of women’s risk in heterosexual dating. How might specific features of Tinder, such as the formal link with Facebook as well as the feature that allows users to see if any matches have mutual Facebook friends, create different senses of risk or safety in ways not available in other dating apps or in offline dating conventions?

      Comment by jeremiahfavara on June 25th, 2016

      I think this paragraph could be more clearly linked to the following section. It seems as though the fraught domain of heterosexuality, involving both pleasure and danger, is not unique to Tinder but rather that Tinder provides a different entry point or set of mediated interactions that lead to “old norms” of dating in which men’s entitlement and anger and the potential for violence has long existed. Elaborating on how Tinder, though new and providing different sets of possibilities – as are very nicely laid out in the sections on new landscapes and multipurpose tool – is embedded in a broader set of conventional gendered norms might be helpful.

      Comment by jeremiahfavara on June 25th, 2016

      I really enjoyed this article. It does a great job discussing Tinder and its role in women’s heterosexual dating practices.

      Comment by jeremiahfavara on June 25th, 2016

      This paragraph does an excellent job providing a clear roadmap for the rest of the article.

      Comment by jeremiahfavara on June 25th, 2016

      Good clear discussion of the gendered dynamics of online dating.

      Comment by Yamaguchi Precious on June 28th, 2016

      As mentioned in this paragraph, Tinder facilitates a “fun and entertaining” way of meeting new people, possibly the love of one’s life and yet it comes with the risk of encounters of sexual violence, STDs, and “even death,” which is a possibility when dating or starting a relationship even outside of Tinder or any Internet website. Perhaps it is not the app itself alone that in to be inquired but how do individuals negotiate their quest and/or curiosity for pleasure with the possible risks situated both within and outside of the app. What is at stake when one engages in the easy and entertaining factors of Tinder, situated within the risks of dating in general (whether one is dating online or offline)?

      Comment by Yamaguchi Precious on June 28th, 2016

      Even before the 1990’s some of the qualities and risks that are present in online dating (reducing loneliness, searching for a soulmate, sex, boredom, etc.) have also been attached to other facilitated and moderated types of dating such as matchmaking, blind dating, swinging, and picture brides. Many of these motivations throughout history have been the same but have moved to mobile and online spaces.

      Comment by Yamaguchi Precious on June 28th, 2016

      What are the tensions between having enough information about a person to filter out whether they may be a potential and prospective mate/partner and the limited amount of information about a person provided by Tinder? Also, how can having a limited amount of information about the person you are interested in as well as people having a limited amount of information about you be helpful or empowering to women when using Tinder?

      Comment by Yamaguchi Precious on June 28th, 2016

      Was there any specific criteria that was required to be a participant in this project (education, regional location, etc.)?

      Comment by Yamaguchi Precious on June 29th, 2016

      The contrast between Tinder and other online dating websites and their association with various age groups/generations is very interesting!

      Comment by Yamaguchi Precious on July 1st, 2016

      It’s very interesting how one of the features of Tinder’s interface is that it is minimal and limited to a photo and a few pieces of info on the person, yet some people (I wonder if it is the majority or minority of users) take it upon themselves to investigate more info on the prospective person/date online.

      Comment by Yamaguchi Precious on July 1st, 2016

      I enjoyed reading this article and learning about the different women’s experiences and perspectives using Tinder. The Conclusion section summarizes the strengths of this article and topic.

      Comment by Radhika Gajjala on July 19th, 2016

      Do you want to reference where the idea of “technologically mediated intimacies” comes from and define it briefly here ?

      Comment by Radhika Gajjala on July 22nd, 2016

      I was wondering about this link with Facebook too – can you add a little bit elaboration on how this works?

      Comment by Radhika Gajjala on July 22nd, 2016

      adding on to Carol’s point –  from chapter 5 to chapter 6 you need to make clear the link about casual sex and Tindr use?

      Comment by Mariana Grohowski on September 30th, 2016

      redundancy: interviewed style of interviewing. then interviewer in the second sentence. Revise: Participants were interviewed by the second author using a semi-structured approach.

      Comment by Mariana Grohowski on September 30th, 2016

      Again, redundant with the sentence “interview questions were open-ended” isn’t that what semi-structured interview means?

      Comment by Mariana Grohowski on September 30th, 2016

      according to the submission guidelines through Ada, citations don’t include the comma between authors’ last names and year).

      Comment by Mariana Grohowski on September 30th, 2016

      acknowledge the publication mode and choose another word instead of paper?

  • Feminine Voice in the Digital Sphere: Disruptive Speech & the Subversion of Gendered Cultural Scripts (40 comments)

    • Comment by Radhika Gajjala on April 25th, 2015

      love it!

      Really excellent introduction. The way that you are thinking about embodiment and the digital is deeply important. This is one of the clearest, most forceful articulations of stakes I’ve read in a while!

      This paragraph might be more effective if it preceded paragraph 13, since 13 ends with a strong statement indicating the direction you will be heading based on your summary of classical rhetoric’s exclusion of women.

      This paragraph might be more effective if it preceded Paragraph 13, since 13 concludes with a strong statement indicating the direction you are heading based on your summary of gender bias in classical rhetoric.